All At Once
All at Once is a podcast dedicated to raising multiples, because life with multiples deserves its own space.
Whether you're a new or expecting parent to twins, triplets or more, a seasoned parent of multiples, or simply curious about life with multiples, All At Once is your place for real talk about raising multiples. Each episode promises to leave you feeling seen, heard and informed.
Join us, Sinead Finn and Gabi Holdinghausen - two mums with five kids between us, including two sets of twins - as we share honest, unfiltered stories and dive into a wide range of topics. From infertility and birthing to the day-to-day reality of raising multiples, we cover it all, the highs, the lows and everything in between.
This is a safe space to laugh, cry and feel understood, all at once.
All At Once
Mum Guilt, Rage & Why It Feels So Heavy with Multiples
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Most mothers of multiples grapple with the unspoken weight of mum guilt—and here’s why that feeling might actually be a sign you’re doing a better job than you think.
In this episode, we’re getting really honest about mum guilt, mum rage, and the mental load of raising multiples — because wow, it’s a lot.
We talk about the parts no one really says out loud: the overwhelm, the overstimulation, the moments where you feel like you’re being pulled in a million directions and still somehow not doing enough.
Sinead shares what it’s been like grieving the version of motherhood she imagined before twins — and how she’s learning to make peace with what it actually looks like. Gabi opens up about juggling a toddler and newborn twins, the guilt that comes with feeling split between them, and the emotional load of trying to be everything to everyone.
In this ep, we chat about:
- Mum guilt with multiples
- Those moments where mum rage sneaks in (and you’re like… where did that come from?)
- The version of motherhood we thought we’d have versus what it actually looks like
- The mental load of multiples and why it can feel so relentless
- Trying (and often failing) to find a bit of space for ourselves
- Why talking about this stuff out loud actually helps
If you’re feeling overwhelmed, stretched thin, or like you’re not quite getting it right — this one is for you.
Because honestly? Most days we’re not thriving — we’re surviving. And that’s more than enough.
Follow along for the raw, unfiltered reality of raising multiples.
Thanks for being here.
If this resonated, sharing, rating or leaving a comment helps more parents of multiples find us.
Navigating Mum Guilt: The Unique Challenges of Multiples
SPEAKER_01Welcome to All at Once, a podcast dedicated to raising multiples because life with multiples deserves its own space. Whether you're expecting twins already deep in the chaos or simply curious about life with multiples, you're in the right place. We're Sneid and Gabby, two mums with five kids between us, including two sets of twins, sharing honest, unfiltered stories about the highs, the lows, and everything in between. This is a safe space to laugh, cry, and feel understood all at once.
SPEAKER_00Let's jump in! Today we're talking about something that almost every multiple parent feels, but not many people talk about mum guilt. The guilt of not giving enough time to each child, the guilt of losing your patience. We're also talking about mum rage because it's real and it doesn't mean you're a bad mum. It just usually means you're carrying too much. I don't think there's a mum alive who hasn't experienced mum guilt, but I do think the guilt can look different when you have multiples. I think one of the things no one really talks about is grieving the version of motherhood you imagined before twins changed everything. I know for me, I never thought twins were on the cards. I just always imagined, you know, probably having two to three singletons. And I feel horrible saying it, but I was very because of my journey, I was so happy that it was twins, but there was a part of me that did mourn that I wasn't gonna experience a singleton pregnancy and I wasn't gonna have that one-on-one time. And you know, as the pregnancy progressed, and when the twins did arrive, like there was a part of me that was envious of my friends that, you know, it was so easy that like taking their baby out for coffee, they they just could take the baby everywhere. I think even you mentioned in an earlier ep episode, it was like you could just put your baby in your purse and go anywhere. And there was a part of me that was like sad to not have experienced that. But then, you know, I don't want to sound ungrateful because I'm so, so, so grateful that I had two babies. But I I'm sure most mums, especially twin mums that have had twins for the for their first baby, could feel that on some level.
Grieving the Idealized Version of Motherhood
SPEAKER_02100%. I think that that comes up all the time as a common theme that people are saying that, you know, they they grieve that motherhood that like they your whole life you picture that you're gonna have one baby. Like that's what we're brought up to know. Like, no, you don't think you're gonna have twins. And so it's different. It's different than what you expect. I guess it was interesting for me because I did have the singleton pregnancy, and so I had the direct comparison. So to me, it I did really struggle, not with the pregnancy, probably more so when they arrived, but I was so I like you said, I had this little handbag baby that would come everywhere with me, and it was amazing. And then you have twins and I have a toddler, and then like that does that life like doesn't look like what you thought it was gonna look like, even just for a second baby here. Like, that's gonna be the even easier handbag baby that you just like you know go around and you take, you know, the little baby to all the toddlers' activities, and you're just gonna breastfeed and you know everything's gonna be great. And like, I think I even tried that because I so wanted that also for Billy, yeah, to have that. Like she shouldn't miss out. But then it just it actually it's not, it doesn't look the same as what you're told it's gonna look like. And that is, I think, totally normal to grieve that. And I think it's totally valid to grieve that because it's different.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I that's an interesting take because I would have assumed that, and I've never really even put much thought into this, but I kind of assume that you, having already had a singleton, wouldn't maybe grieve that going into twins for your second pregnancy. But like now that you've you spelt it out like that, it does make sense. Like you had a vision in mind, you thought you were gonna take this one baby to Billy's activities, but now you've got all these uh logistical challenges to make that happen.
SPEAKER_02And it's so much harder. Like, and I'm not again being ungrateful, it's just the reality. Like, I remember I was, I literally tried for so long to still like you know, Billy's gonna do ballet on Thursdays and we're all gonna go, and you know, it'll be it'll be great. And it's like actually logistically getting three kids out of the house on your own, like was fine probably when they were still in capsules and whatever, but then it got harder, and it was like you're also grieving Billy's missing out on things because she can't do those things because I can't physically do those. Like there's one of me and there's three of them, and so we just had to stop doing those things, and that's another thing that I guess you grieve for Billy and me as a mum.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I like I I can't even begin to imagine what it's like already having a toddler at home and bringing twins home and the guilt around your first baby. Can you can you share some like insight into that? Because I know you know, we'd have a lot of listeners that already have one or two children at home, they're about to bring home twins or higher order multiples. Like, what does that look like for you as a mum? And what does that look like for your first child?
The Impact of Twins on Sibling Relationships
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think that's probably still the biggest thing that I struggle with today, guilt-wise. Like, Billy was not even two when the twins came home, and so she's still a baby, but then there's you've got two new new babies that you have to look after, and I think that she was just forced to grow up so quickly, and I'm really lucky that Billy is really independent and like she handled it really well, but it was hard because like you can't be there for everyone, and of course, you're you have to tend more to newborn babies than you do a two-year-old, but so Billy sort of just got um not forgotten, but you know, we were just put on like frozen in the day to get to get through, and like there just wasn't a lot of time for her. Like, I think I put her in daycare more because I couldn't even physically do it on my own. Like, Zio went back to work after one week, so it was just like me and three babies. So I just needed to lean on that village, but then I feel like she's missing out on this time, um, and I still struggle with that today. Like, I feel like because I'm so overstimulated, and it's just a lot that I'm, you know, probably less like I'm I'm tired, I don't have the time, like when it is time when the twins are napping now to like spend time with her. Like I just want to have a rest for a minute, but like then she's missing out. You must feel stretched in like three different directions. You do. I remember there was this moment, I think the twins would have been like maybe about like four months old, and like Billy was still in nappies at yeah, that so like I had her on, I was home alone, I had her on the change table, and then the babies were in the lounge room, and then I could just hear this like thump, and then they were crying, or one of them was crying, and I've still got Billy on the change table, I can't leave her, so then I'm like, what do I do? And so I had to just finish what I was doing with Billy and then got there. But that moment I think I just broke down and cried because I was like this realization that I am literally completely outnumbered and have three humans that need me, but I can't be everywhere at once. And like that moment, I was like, Oh my god, someone actually hurt themselves, but I can't even do anything about it because I've got a two-year-old on the change table that I also can't leave. And it was just like that's when I realized, wow, you are like I'm really stretched here.
Overcoming Logistical Challenges with Twins
SPEAKER_00So from there, is that when you decided that you're gonna increase Billy's daycare days?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think then we started looking at just like what other supports that I can get because you sort of realize that you can't do it all on your own, and that was quite um scary. And yeah, like you do just have to lean on that village because you actually just you physically it's not. You don't have enough hands, yeah. Like it's not like not wanting to or anything. It is like, yeah, you can't, but I guess um now like I still have a lot of guilt around all of like Billy missing out, and there's so much there, but also to to bit put a positive spin on it. Now I look at the like you know, two and a half years on, I look at the relationship that Billy has with her brother and sister, and that is something that is so special. But it's literally everything that I had dreamed of, and like if you're in the thick of it, I promise it does get better, and the bonds that they have together is so special.
SPEAKER_00So, how was Billy when you brought the twins home? How did she react? And did it take a while for her to warm up?
SPEAKER_02She was actually great, like it all does feel like a bit of a blur. I remember her coming into the hospital and she was sort of like, What are these things? And Hunter was like crying and she was like, She just looks really concerned. And I actually remember that sort of being like a how she was from the start, very like mothering. I look back at lots of photos and videos of her just like feeding them both. There's this hilarious one of her like with both her arms out, trying to like stretch to feed them both with the bottles, and I was just like, She felt just as stretched as me. She can relate. She was like, Mom, this is hard. Like I said, she's really independent, and so I was really lucky in that way because I know a lot of other children really like probably emotionally feel it. Whereas Billy sort of just went with the flow and they just became a part of our our life. But I think it's all more my guilt. But I don't even think maybe she would know, like that she well, she doesn't know anything different, does she?
SPEAKER_00So well, do you think she like I guess she's so young at that age, but do you think she felt felt left out at any stage, or was that just in your subconscious?
SPEAKER_02I think it's probably in my subconscious. I think there's definitely things that I still think about, like that she can't do like ballet on a Thursday, but like that's a small thing. Like we do lots of other activities, like on the weekend when my husband's home, or you know, I'm just as I even say it, I'm just being hard on myself and I don't think she would notice. It is all she knows, and I guess there's pros and cons to each different way you grow up. So hopefully it's that's so true. Um, impact her. But I think the biggest thing is that I feel like I'm I put so much pressure on her, even though like from when she was
The Emotional Toll of Parenting Multiples
SPEAKER_02two, because yeah, like I needed some level of like I don't know, not assistance, but like I probably expected more from her than what she was like was age appropriate because I needed that level of like stability or something in the house. Um, and like I'd probably snap at her if she feels like you took it out on her a little bit sometimes, like or if she would wake up the babies, or if she'd like to do something to upset the babies, then you're snapping, and it's like, well, actually, you're just two. Yeah, that's just sort of that's not your fault. But you know, when you're so stressed out as it is, and then like they the dog pops it here, like seriously.
SPEAKER_00No, when you're so stimulated, and oh, I can't even begin to imagine what it is like when you've just put two newborn babies down and your daughter wakes them up, or anyone, or the postman. I'm just like the immense amount of rage you feel 100%, but I can imagine how that kind of could unfold.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but what about you, Sinead? Like obviously, so you mentioned that you felt you sort of grieved the pregnancy, but what did that look like when the twins came home and you were just a mum of twins? How did that feel for you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I didn't I didn't really know any different, I guess. And I had a really positive experience for um the first 12 weeks. Um, I did feel stretched though. I would sometimes, you know, I'd be feeding both babies, and I would sometimes like try to imagine what it would be like if I just had had one. And then, you know, I wanted to get back out like walking and things like that. And it was just like it was quite daunting to like get the capsules set up in the car or like to set up the pram and things like that. And I was just like, this would be so easy with one. I think I was just surviving, I was just getting through that newborn stage that I don't know if guilt was playing such a role then, maybe more so in the moments of when they cried and like who do I soothe first? And how am I how do I soothe two babies at once? Like, this is so new to me. And like Zio, Andy went back to work. I think he did the week in hospital one week at home, and then he was back to work.
SPEAKER_02And then and this is you being a first-time mum at home with two babies.
SPEAKER_00And I had no family support for six weeks, so it was literally just me and my friends that dropped by, you know, and just in saying that, I am someone that likes to be thrown in the deep end. I was kind of like ready for Andy to go back to work because I was like, I need to learn this myself kind of thing. But yeah, it was hard not having him because when you have your husband home and he's caring equally for, you know, you've got a baby each, the guilt's not there as much. But when you've got one crying or when you've got both crying, and you're like, I have to pick who to sue first. Like Declan was a pretty chilled baby, but like Harper was not so much, and there'd be a lot of time, like
Finding Balance: Routine vs Flexibility
SPEAKER_00I think around that four-month stage when things weren't as sleepy, newborn as they previously had been. That's when you realize what's that's when I probably started feeling the guilt the most, I think. Like it is all a haze. I'm sure there was plenty of moments that guilt um fell on me in those early weeks, but I do have a lot of memories around like getting them to sleep, like for their night sleep, like say 6 p.m. sleep. Um, it would take a lot of work to settle Harper, and like sometimes Declan wouldn't just go to sleep, and I was like, who do I go to first? And I started feeling like so guilty that I was spending so much time with Harper, like that I would just kind of put Declan down, he'd usually do his thing, but then I was like always with Harper, and I felt I actually felt guilty that I didn't feel I had much of a relationship with Declan at the beginning.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I felt that's actually such a it is so interesting because it is like if you've got an easier child, yeah, then you just you don't tend to that child as much, but like that's like a hunter and what are my children saying Hunter and Darcy.
SPEAKER_00Hey, that this is also what mum guilt does to the brain.
SPEAKER_02Oh, Hunter and Darcy was far more difficult. And so like I would always be like, we were like, oh, thank God we've got Hunter, because otherwise I don't know how he survived. But then you do, you sort of just tend to one baby more, and then you have this guilt, like, oh god, I'm not even spending any time with this other child. But really, it's like because they're the Yeah, they're the easy.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's like what you said with Billy, she was quite independent, so you sat her down, put a movie on, and just relied on that, relied on her to be able to do that for you so you could have the time to look after your other children. Where I was doing the same with Declan. I was like, I'm relying on you because you're so easy. And like, but then I would have moments with her like there's so many layers to guilt. It's just honestly, I'm I feel like this is a therapy session for me. I don't think I've even had the time to reflect on this, but it's like there was this window of time, I think around four months, where I was really strict with schedules and things like that. I did all their sleeps in the cot. Like, I mean, like I have rarely any memories where they were on my chest, except for this four-month stage where Harper was having some troubles going down just for that one sleep. That I would bring her out on the couch with me because I had already tried like rocking, I'd already tried all the things, and I was like, just come out on the couch with me and like we would have I would I loved it because I was like, I get in this like one-on-one time that I longed for and what I envisioned a singleton experience to be like. And not to say that you can't have that experience with twins. I just decided I'm gonna be like very regimented and it did pay off, but it came, it came at a loss as well. Where I I do reflect back, and I'm never gonna say I regret it, but like I look back and go, I wish I had had them on my chest more. I wish I let them sleep on me more. And I'm a big advocate for schedules, but I think you know, I'm all in or nothing kind of girl. I feel like flexibility to some extent is good because that I know every mother told me, oh Shinee, the newborn stage goes so fast, soak it in. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've got like, yeah, I've got plenty of time. But like I did blink and it was over. And I look back and I'm like, oh, I I didn't get those sleepy newborn cuddles. So there's guilt around that.
SPEAKER_02But how do you know if you've never if you had one child, do you think you would have still been a routine mum, or you would have been more flexible and open to, you know.
SPEAKER_00It's hard to say. I, you know, you all the things you say before you have children. I was always like, I'm I was a hundred percent this typical person that I'm not working around a baby's routine, they come with me. If I want to go out, the baby's coming out. Like, I was very much like that. I was like that till the hospital. I didn't really do much research with the twins. Like I um I kind of was like, we'll learn it all in the hospital kind of thing. And it was very teach us everything. It was very quickly in the hospital when we're spending those five days in there that I realized this ain't gonna work without a schedule. We had this is a whole different discussion, but we had like midwives coming in and everyone had their own opinions. Like they're all fabulous, but they all had their different opinions on how to do things. And I'm like, what is going on? Like, I don't know if my children have fed enough. Like, I don't, I don't, like, should I be feeding there? I was so lost. So we kind of got the the one that seemed the most qualified. We just said, hey, stop. I need you to write out a schedule because I can't work this way. And then that's like when we kind of realized we're scheduled people. And we we had previously booked uh, I think I've touched on this in an earlier episode. Like our we had a private midwife come to the house and she was kind of like, Are you a schedule person? Do you want to, do you think you're gonna thrive of schedule or do you want to be like go with the flow? And I'm like, nah, we're scheduled. And then that was our story from from there, and it came with a lot of benefits, but as you said, everything comes with pros and cons.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like I was not, I was the the non-routine mum. And like even like with the twins or with Billy? Well, at the start with the twins, I was because like that's all I knew, and like it worked for Billy. Like I hadn't even thought about it. I was like, well, they're just gonna come everywhere with us, and they're just it's just gonna be the same. It's just two of them. Yeah. Okay, I didn't know that. And so, but then I was reflecting on this, and I'm pretty sure like it's probably in that that four month stage where you that worked for a bit because you know they were still in capsules, I could still just take them and they're just sleeping. And so I was sort of like still naive to it, thinking, oh yeah, it's fine. This is easy, and not easy, but you know, they can, you know, come with us anyway. That wasn't the case at four months. I think we broke down and we realized we were completely exhausted. And she codes down around that four months.
SPEAKER_00She'll kind of freak people out, but that's when, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It the reality sort of hits, and that was when I reached out to a sleep consultant, and that's when we became routine people. I would still say I was probably not as strict as you, like I would still be open to like going out like in in the day and they would sleep in the pram or whatever. Um, but I think that also comes back to having an older child because I didn't want Billy to have to just sit home all day because they're sleeping when she stopped doing a day nap. Like, why should she have to do that?
SPEAKER_00No, it's like sacrifice. I can imagine with having a toddler at home, there are so many challenges, but I also think it can kind of be the biggest blessing to a parent of multiples because it's gonna make you get out of the house and not like recluse like I sort of did. Um, you have to go to their activities, you have to do these things. So I think it kind of gets you out of the depths like a lot quicker than say someone that's a first-time twin parent. But to say that I've seen plenty of mums like kill it and just like get out and about really early on. So it's just yeah, I don't know. Did you get out and about like you at the start? Oh my god, it's all it hates. It got out for walks really quickly. Like I was take as soon as Andy went back, I'm like, I I had in my head that I'm gonna do all the things. I'm doing all the things. I'm not my singleton mum friends. Well, what I had seen, what I thought was normal, what I had envisioned. Like I thought I could be going to the cafes and doing all those things. So I would go for walks around like our local park every day, and I felt really good about that. Um, andy and I would like go to cafes here and there, but I did get out a little bit, and then I I don't remember. I feel like it stopped for a while. I think the babies weren't sleepy, they needed my attention, and I think it was it wasn't that my babies were hard, they were like actually pretty chilled babies. It was the logistics behind getting out the door, and I think it just got a little bit too hard, and I just kind of was like, I I'm such a creature of habit. I'm just gonna do the same thing every day. And I do think that took a toll on my mental health. Like I would just I look back, actually, I look, I know the internet's the internet, but like back in the day when I had twins so long ago, um, there wasn't that much going on on TikTok in those days. There wasn't many vlogs and things like that, especially not from Australian creators as time has progressed, as years have gone by. I've been watching some of these vlogs and I see what these mums have accomplished, like just around the house. And I was like, I was just sitting in the playroom with my babies on like a playmat with like their little black and white book all day long, kind of thing, and doing all the feeds and the pumping and whatnot. I just didn't feel like there was much time. But like, I don't know, it was like the idea of going to do the washing or cook something, it was like it wasn't like in the rule book or something for me. I was just so scared of messing up this bloody routine.
SPEAKER_02But that's also it's nice. It sounds like you're just bonding with your babies, which sounds Yeah, it's probably what everyone else is missing out on because they're too busy cleaning. Like that's how I feel today. That's true.
SPEAKER_00That's true. I yeah, that's a I like the way you frame that because I did spend so much time with them in the beginning. Um, but maybe if I had found balance, I would have felt, I don't know, there's like a part of me that was starting to miss work, if I yeah, if I'm being honest. Like there was a part of me, I've always been a career girly. Um, you know, I was a fashion designer for 15 years. Like I started, and my friend said to me, because I was like, I'm taking the year off, like I've saved to have this year off. And my friends are like, Sinead, like, we know you, you're gonna like need to do something else. And I was like, nah, like I've done it, I've done a fair slog at this career, like I need. A I need a break, but like around that four to five months, I started getting that like itch and I guilt was kicking in because I was like, Sinead, like not everyone gets this opportunity to stay home with their babies, like soak it up. But I was I don't know, did you did you have anything like that? Because I know you're a career girly too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I actually went back to work really early. Um, and I think also this comes up as like I was gonna ask you, do you think it was because you were finding it hard? Like work would be easier?
SPEAKER_00I don't want to say, like, obviously it is hard, but I think I was finding it, and this sounds horrible to say, but like mundane. My days were the same every day. And like working in fashion, no day was the same. Um like, yes, I was in the office, blah, blah, blah, those like things that you know reoccur every day. But like the day-to-day work was different. And
The Adjustment to Parenthood
SPEAKER_00like I was doing, like, you know, it was just the adjustment to the hardest.
SPEAKER_02When you're just sitting at home talking to two babies, like it's yeah, it's just the adjustment.
SPEAKER_00I I want to say to people out there that are expecting twins, it's not always the babies that are hard. I I did not have hard babies. It was, I don't know about toddlers, like we can speak to that. Toddlers are a whole different level. Um, but with newborns, for me, it was like the adjustment, my like the adjustment my life took. Like my day-to-day is completely different. And like, yes, you can prepare to that to some level, but yeah, it was just the re repetition.
SPEAKER_02I and I guess also though, like part of your identity is your career. And so if you're there's this big identity shift when you become a mom, it's like, oh, now I'm supposed to just be a mom and not like all that 15 years of as a fashion designer means nothing, and I'm just supposed to be a mum. I think that's not not true because that's a part of who you are and something that you love. And probably when you're in that moment in this identity shift, that feels weird to not have a major part of you.
SPEAKER_00That's true. But then I was I was feeling my creative outlets in other ways. I started sharing my journey online, and then I also felt guilty about that because like obviously you're awake a lot when you have newborn twins. So, like when I was pumping, every I I triple fed. So like I was pumping multiple times a day. So, like, you know, I'm holding a pump with one hand and I would like sometimes edit on my phone. So I did feel like I was, you know, I wasn't doing it when the babies are around. I was like very mindful not to be on my phone when the babies are awake. But I I was hitting those creative needs there, but then I felt guilty. I was like, and I do reflect and I'm I'm so grateful for what social media has given me, but I reflect also and I go, did I ever actually just be a full-time stay-at-home mom? Because people might not think social media is work, but like I had to come up with concepts, I had to film, I had to edit. Like to me, that was enjoyable, but it was work. And I'm like, did I really ever give myself the grace to experience this as a whole?
SPEAKER_02Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. It totally makes sense. And I can feel like I often think back, like like you say, the newborn stage, or even like the fact that my twins are two and a half, that time has gone so fast. And I do often think, did I even enjoy it? And like, or even sometimes it you feel like you wish it away, like yeah in some moment. Yeah, definitely. But that does make complete sense, but also it's just wild what guilt does to you, because like I don't think like dads having these thoughts like not going back to work, or you know, not being present, they just don't have those thoughts, but it's just a mum guilt that we just constantly feel like we're not doing enough, and I hate it because like if that's something that fills your cup in some way, then do it because you need to look after yourself as well.
SPEAKER_01Well, let's speak about going back to work. When did you go back to work with Billy? And then when did you go back to work with the twins?
Navigating Work-Life Balance
SPEAKER_02I think she was about nine months old, and I think from memory that was like a financial decision. I probably could have felt like I could stay home longer then. Um, but then with the twins, I actually went back when they were six months old. That was because my work needed me to come back, and I think it was probably too early. Um, and then I ended up taking a break from returning to work and because it was just too much.
SPEAKER_00How long did you go back for till you realised you it wasn't maybe the right?
SPEAKER_02Maybe like two months, I think. But it was also like we own a building company, I was working in the building company and then doing my job and then being a mum, and that's when I was like, I'm doing everything poorly. And like I remember there was a day and like I was rushing to get everyone out of the house so I could get to work, and I was so stressed, and I was like, why am I doing this? Why am I putting my my kids through this when we don't actually have to rush out of the house and get you all-to-day care? Like, I don't need to do that, so yeah, that was tough. But like in saying that, I do, like we've said, I'm a career girl, I love working, but like it really like lights something up in me. But yeah, that was probably too soon.
SPEAKER_00So, how many days did you go back to work for?
SPEAKER_02I think it was two days. Okay, it was two days and then one day working sort of in the company. But when you own your own business, that's sort of like every day you're working. And then yeah, but like it was just yeah, upon reflection, too soon. But um, what about you?
SPEAKER_00I can but just going back to what you said, like I still feel what you feel every morning, like on the daycare days. Like, I'm like, why am I rushing them out out of the door? I work for myself, like I can do my own hours, but it's like, you know, they're only in daycare for X amount of hours a day. And it's like I have to fit a full-time job into these days. It's like the idea that I lose out an of an hour of that like planned block of time I give myself, I don't know, just send me. And like then the get, oh, like why did I rush them? Why like I didn't spend time with them? I was just like, Yeah, uh, yeah. And then that, you know, they add that layer of like the drop-off on top where oh it's hard, but at the same time, I'm a better mum when I have space to myself as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, it's also like a bit of a break. Like work is much easier than spending.
SPEAKER_00It's not a break, Gabby, but I agree with you. Like, I feel like work is a break, but when we actually reflect like I don't ever take a break. If if I'm not with the kids, I'm working. If I'm not working, I like to make it.
SPEAKER_02We should we should learn to take a break.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But going back to your question, I I had planned a year off. Yeah. And I worked for a private company, so I was only um able to get the paid parental leave from the government. So I was not paid any maternity leave apart from that, which I am grateful for. But I like a lot of my friends, the school teachers and stuff, I I don't even know how that works anymore. But like they would like nearly have a whole year covered, like paid part-time pay or half pay or something like that. Um, so I saved and saved and saved so that I could take this year off. And then obviously Andy and I pulled together, cut a lot of expenses to make it work. But I did end up going back to work, I think, or
Returning to Work: Decisions and Guilt
SPEAKER_00the kids started in daycare at 11 months because it was a situation of like I didn't want to start them into like March or April or something like that. Like when they were actually, it must have been April when they were a year, but the day I couldn't, the daycare weren't gonna hold the space. Yes. So that made me so sad. And I there was tremendous guilt around sending them to daycare. I think most parents that send their kids to daycare have experienced that. I don't have any regret sending my kids to daycare. It was just very hard. And I'm like, are they too young? All those questions you go through. Uh, but to be fair, once I got into the rhythm and started working, I um was feeling okay about it. I I hadn't had a break for like a year. We didn't have anyone babysit them that whole year. Like, do you know what I mean? I just didn't stop. So it was nice for me to have something ours to work towards.
SPEAKER_02Because I actually think that daycare, for some people, it can just be an extension of your village. Like some people, like you said, don't have family. And I actually quite dislike the guilt around daycare or people needing to use daycare because some people don't have any other help, and you actually just need help. And that is for some people, that is the help that they have.
SPEAKER_00And I I wouldn't be able to survive without daycare.
SPEAKER_02No, they are like my village, they're like a part of our family. Like, we love our daycare, and same. Like, couldn't be more grateful. Like, we would not have survived with three kids under two without daycare. So don't feel guilty for sending your kids to daycare because if you have to, that's just that's just the reality.
SPEAKER_00And it's just more people to care and love your kids. Absolutely. I think a lot of the negative discourse comes around parents that have never sent their kids to daycare, so they they don't always know. Um but for me, actually, I did with like along with the social media in the first year, I did decide that I was gonna do consulting. And I had this idea that I was gonna resign from my job and go into consulting so I could have my own hours because you can imagine the fashion industry, yeah, like they don't know what nine or five is. Um, so I was thinking of doing that, and I did take on a client quite early on because it was like quiet at night, and I thought I could like do the work, and I very quickly realized I think we started like heading towards a six to seven month stage, and I was like, this is too much. I can't do this without daycare days, kind of thing. So I ended up quitting my job and I ended up starting consulting, but my old employer came on as a client, and very quickly, um, I think I had like a maybe a 12-week contract with them, and at the end of that, they offered me a job and I knew it was gonna happen. And I was like, I don't want a job, like you know, and I'm gonna be honest, after a year of not working, they were open to being flexible. They'll they to be fair, they they were very flexible. Uh, they offered me part-time, etc., etc. But the salary was better than my full-time salary, and I was just like, my I've drained my bank account. I am someone that liked financial independence, like, you know, Andy and I have always been equals. So I knew I was craving that again. And I decided to take that on, but I got to work from home. It was pretty much the same deal, same hours basically. Um, but very quickly, as it always happened, I was expected to do this is this is just like renowned in the fashion industry, but like three people's jobs in three days, and like it was breaking me. And then on top of this, I'm doing social media and I'm feeling the passion for this. I'm helping other women, and I'm like, I need to choose between one or the other. I can't do both. And obviously, I won't go into details, but just lots of things started happening, and I decided like I am mentally unwell, I am not in a good place right now, I am beyond burnout. And I've been burnt out a few times again. Just I put myself into everything that I do, and I sometimes don't have a healthy work-life balance. And that was sort of starting to happen again because when I was working, I'd I'd commit like when I was doing my fashion job, those hours were fashion. Then I'd do the social, like in between that and trying to balance the kids, trying to be a good wife, trying to do the housework, trying to do all the things. And I just was like, I just I had a bad day at work and just broke down. I rang Andy at his work and I was like, I can't, I can't do this anymore. And I, and he's like, You're not happy, like I've seen this for a long time. And he was so supportive. He's like, quit. And usually I am the type of person that would give myself like a lot of time to think about this, but I knew in my gut I was done. And you know, it was hard. I'd been with that company for a very long time and I decided to resign. And I gotta be honest, I haven't looked back. Yeah. And now I um I work for myself. Not to say that doesn't come with its own challenges. I still don't know when to stop, and that comes with tremendous guilt. Um, I really am trying to be strict that on the days my kids are at home with me, like they're non-work days.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you're good at that. I'm not good at that.
SPEAKER_00I'm not anymore, though. I was so good at that. And then just lately, my twins are nearly three, they're gonna be three next month. They've just become a little bit easier, and it is easy for me to like put on a movie and be on my laptop. And they're not really napping that much. So I don't I have guilt there and I don't because I'm like, I I to be a better mother, I just need some time. So, like, can you just watch this movie for a little bit so I can just like decompress?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I feel like I watched movies when I was a kid, wasn't so to be.
SPEAKER_00But it's like it's it's it's a tough one knowing when the right decision is to return to work. And I think a lot of people's journeys are stemmed from guilt.
SPEAKER_02Like they Well, there's so many factors though as to why you might have to, like, particularly having multiples you might need financially to return to work. There's just so many elements to it, to someone's decision that that you just can't judge around it.
SPEAKER_00Exactly, and especially in this economy, like a lot of us don't have um the option. And I know we've already got so much privilege too. It's just it's how do you afford a family these days? Kind of thing. I think when we go back to the like the essence of this conversation, which is around mum guilt, yeah, you might go six months a year or whatever on maternity leave. But then when you
Mum Guilt and Societal Pressures
SPEAKER_00when you go back to work, it I oh, I don't know for you, but for me, it adds a whole nother layer because it's another factor in your life you have to think about. And now you've got two babies to care for, a house to care for, husband, friends, family, a job. The mental load is yeah, and then oh, the mental load, like it's it's a lot. And I don't think my brain has ever been the same. It doesn't switch off.
SPEAKER_02I've you're literally stretched between everything, not only your two children, but just everything in your life from yeah.
SPEAKER_00You're always failing at one thing, and sometimes I take that as a positive when I heard that. Like we're just rotating through the task and being good at one thing at a time or multiple things at a time, but something always like you drop the ball on something. Um, I probably butchered that.
SPEAKER_02But but I just think we just need to be kinder to ourselves because all it's just there's so much pressure to do everything perfectly and all the everything that you see on social media that adds to this guilt. Like it's just about coming back to what is important to you, what do you value, and trying not to feel guilty about that because someone else online doesn't think that that's right for them because what's right for you is not going to be what's right for them, even if you have the same dynamic in your family or whatever, it's actually just a personal choice, and we probably just need to, I believe, be kinder to ourselves and stop feeling so guilty because I think we're doing a great job, and even with multiples, it's harder again. So maybe just cut ourselves some slack a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Has there been any steps you've been able to take successfully to cut yourself some slack? No. Because I was like, please share, please share with me.
SPEAKER_02Oh no, I actually am really actively trying, like because I I really noticed that the guilt was getting to me, and I just couldn't find that I was doing anything without feeling some sort of guilt attached to it. So I'm I just am just trying to like let go, like you said, and like put on a movie if I'm realizing that I need a break, because that might mean that I'm then a better mum after that movie, and to not like be riddled with guilt around that decision because it's actually had a more positive outcome. So I guess it's just being more aware of like when I'm feeling guilty and why I feel guilty about it and if I need if that's a valid feeling or if it's some societal pressure telling me to feel guilty about it.
SPEAKER_00There's a lot of a lot of discourse around putting TVs on, but I like look, if you're a parent to multiple and they're toddlers and you've never put a TV on, drop into my DM because I need to know how you're doing this. Like I I'm not saying this is about me, like I want to know your tricks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I want to know, but one of mine won't even watch a movie, so I try. And then she just wants to chat, which is which is nice.
SPEAKER_00Just me 20 minutes even. Oh, when they start dropping the naps, it's like Yeah. Like that was a um uh a time for me to reset and just have something to eat and just just like bring myself back down to the bottom.
SPEAKER_02Well, bring your cortisol levels down to be ready to go again.
SPEAKER_00Speaking of cortisol levels,
Managing Mum Rage and Emotional Wellbeing
SPEAKER_00like this is a a tough topic to bring up, and it's only something I've kind of experienced lately, and I don't think I've really heard many people talk about this, but have you experienced any like rage? Have you had outbursts with your children where you well are not very proud of or you feel immense guilt in reflection?
SPEAKER_02I and I think that's why I'm trying to have less guilt because not around rage, rage is not good. But like I was noticing, but I was just feeling so stretched, so like overstimulated, just like there was just too much, and that's when I snap, and that's when I'm like, I'd rather just have a minute and regroup so that I can come back and be fully present and not snap because it's just true when you are so stretched, there's only so much that you can be stretched before you snap. And no, I'm not proud of it. Um, but I think that yeah, we do need to talk about it more because I don't think that we'd be alone in feeling that way. Like I think you just have this little window of capacity that you can tolerate things for, and one little thing can tip you over the edge, and you do just lose it, and then you just gotta come back and you know.
SPEAKER_00And I think it's actually a pretty big window. I think we like we grow that window quite big, and then you know, it's just a cherry on top and it just breaks you, and it's usually something petty that is the bias.
SPEAKER_02Like the final little thing that, like even the dog barking. Oh, the the dog. But there's just like, yeah, and I think it's obviously I think it also comes from being doing this for so long now. It's like the repetitiveness of like slowly just breaks you down.
SPEAKER_00I feel like for me, I definitely had moments over the first two years, but nothing too wild. For me, it was when I was going through the stuff at work. This was like one of the reasons that actually pushed me to make this decision. Is that my kids are just sending me? Like I was starting to lose it. I just remember this one time in the car. I can't even remember what they were doing. I think they were just like at me, nonstop, whinging and stuff. And I just was like, shut up. And like I was just so ashamed of myself. Like the rage. It was more like not that I said shut up and I yelled it. It was like the rage I felt inside. And I was like, this is not healthy, this is actually scary. And that was like a big reflection moment for me. And when I realized, like, what is causing this? Yes, children are stimulating, like that's not going anywhere, but like it's like work is also adding, is putting a lot of pressure on me. I'm not happy, like I need to make some changes, but I still have noticed, even since I've made the changes now, there's like more pressure on me because I don't have a consistent income now. So I feel like the societal pressures on me, I feel pressure for my family kind of thing. So I still think some of that is still sitting with me. And I have noticed like I snap so much easier than I ever used to. And I'm really working on that. And I think what we've touched on a few times now is like the TV on at midday or whatever has helped. I, Indy and I are communicating better and like when we need just some time. So I'm actually trying to like make sure I like I used to be like, I'm gonna go for a walk here and there, but I'm trying to be like, hey, don't feel guilty if I want to message a girlfriend and go for like an hour and a half walk with her just to like decompress. I come back a new person. You're recharged. You yeah, so it's just finding, I think it's sometimes like identifying any added or external pressures, and how can you remove yourself from that situation before it gets too bad? I know if I've had a long day, I you've heard it. Like if I have a long day at home and Andy doesn't come home till late, as soon as Andy comes home, I'm like, I'm going on a mental health walk and he takes over.
SPEAKER_02And you're so good at that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I have to.
SPEAKER_02I I I would be a shell of a human.
Working Dads and the 'Break' Debate
SPEAKER_02See, I struggle with like the guilt in that moment, which is wrong, but like then I'll be like, oh well, I can't leave you know Zero to do it. He's been at work all day or whatever, and you know how hard it is, but you just have to do it because otherwise, yeah, you just you do like you you snap because you just people might not like this view, but I'm like, I I don't care if they're at work all day.
SPEAKER_00I think I don't care because I I I've worked full-time for many years. This is harder than a full-time job.
SPEAKER_02100%.
SPEAKER_00You know, I appreciate you working for our family. I really, really do. But like they're both hard, and two things can be true. And like, I don't I think motherhood is the hardest job of all. So I just Andy knew who he married.
SPEAKER_02But no, I couldn't agree more. I could think it again is a it is a societal pressure that tells me that. Yes. Whereas I don't believe that. I know that he has the luxury every morning of walking out of this house and just going to to work. And like that, and he knows it too, that that is a hundred times easier than looking after three kids all day. Yeah. Um, but it but it's just a part of you. It's something that says, Oh, I'm not supposed to be allowed to go for a walk or do anything for myself at this time.
SPEAKER_00But you I don't want to get me wrong, like it was that way for me for like until the last six to eight months. It was when the job stuff happened. I had to make changes. And I felt like the kids were at a little bit of an older stage where it wasn't as hard on Andy and I. And, you know, I always I don't just tell Andy I'm going for work, like we always talk it through, like I would never leave him in, you know, in a hard moment kind of thing. But he's happy to take that pressure off me, and I'll do the same for him when he needs to be.
SPEAKER_02You know, he's got his stuff. Too, and it's about making time for both of you, yeah, because it goes both ways, like dads can get snappy, and they've only got a window of tolerance, too. So you both need to fill your own cup to be able to best tend to your kids and be the best version of the mum, be the best version of you. And it's funny because even when dads do step in and take over, which obviously we want and need, there's still that voice in the back of your head going, Oh, I should be the one to be doing this, and that's where mum guilt really creeps in again. So obviously, parents of multiples have to learn to split themselves between two or more
Splitting yourself between two or more children
SPEAKER_02children. How do you find you cope with the guilt of that?
SPEAKER_00I don't know if you ever fully cope with the guilt of that, but you like tools in place to kind of help you manage that. You have to learn those tools pretty early on in the newborn stage. I feel like if two babies were crying, I would tend to the one that was crying more. Yeah, if I couldn't help both at the same time. And I feel like if I could settle that one, it was a lot easier than to tend to the the second one. Even now it's just like I'm getting pulled in different directions now that they're toddlers and they both want me and there's a lot of jealousy. If I'm cuddling one, the other one will try to push the other one off, or they'll all try to cuddle me, and I've got kids like climbing and like clawing me and whatnot. I wish I had a list of tools, but it just comes with experience, I guess. I just try to make sure I spend time with them each, like throughout the day. We're at this stage now where they are playing independently and even together a little bit now. And so if Harper's happily playing with her dollhouse, I'll spend some time playing cards with Declan and SWAT. And something else that's been really helpful for Andy and I, and I can't believe it took so long for us to even do this. Like a friend recommended it to me a year or two ago, and I've only done it a couple of times. But depending if we're not too busy, sometimes we'll split them up and take them on dates. Or like Declan does the shopping with Andy every week and he loves it and he looks forward to it. And Harper's a homebody, and she just wants to stay home with me and we just play.
SPEAKER_02So, like it that helps with the guilt a little bit of being like and that's so nice to split them up and be able to do that because then you know you're enjoying that one-on-one time with them. I guess I struggle because there's three of them. Three. And so, like, I find that where I have the most guilt around because I actually can't just split and divide and conquer. Like, it's been really nice when Billy has like she goes to kinda now and she has kinda holidays, so I get to spend time with just her. And that's been really nice because like she doesn't get any of our time really ever, other than when she does like her activities, like swimming. But then, like, I have guilt around that my twins have never even done some activities like Billy did because we actually can't do swimming because we both have to be in the pool. But then what does Billy do? And we don't have any other help.
SPEAKER_00We never thought about that. Yeah, that's never done the layer.
SPEAKER_02They've never done swimming. This is something I'm feeling really guilty about at the moment, like that they just it's too hard to do some of the things, so they miss out. And again, I know that they don't know, but I know. Like they know that Billy goes to swimming. Like, when are they gonna start asking? Well, why can't we? And we just have to figure out logistically how to make it work, but it's not actually that simple. But yeah, I that's where I find this really hard pull between all three, because like I can't even find time to just like split and spend time with the like, yeah, it's hard.
SPEAKER_00It's definitely hard. And I I don't know if we'll ever feel fully satisfied that we know that there's ever like gonna be no guilt. I think that's just natural.
SPEAKER_02Maybe we need to learn to cope with the guilt.
SPEAKER_00We need to get someone on here to help us with that.
Coping with the Mum Guilt
SPEAKER_02Just just maybe someone to tell us we're doing a good job and it's not all so bad.
SPEAKER_00I I think the most important thing is that and something I appreciate from you and my other twin mum friends, is like having these conversations. If I didn't have social media or if I didn't have haven't connected with other parents of multiples, I would be sitting at home thinking, am I the only one experiencing these, feeling these things, feeling this rage, feeling the overstimulation. But that is one of the positive things about, you know, social media and platforms like this is that we can speak openly and hopefully someone else feels seen.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Another thing I just wanted to touch on was that I think it's actually really nice to look at the positives of things because I feel like I'm also seeing all these negatives. Yeah. There's actually so much good in having two babies the same age. And like this guilt comes from somewhere else. Someone else is telling us to feel this guilt, but actually you should just maybe look at what's in front of you. And yes, that might feel difficult when your twins are fighting and screaming down the house, but that there's actually so much special to it that like maybe we need to stop being so I know upset it, but like so hard on ourselves.
Being Kind to ourselves as Mums
SPEAKER_02Like absolutely, my twins are probably not gonna have any idea that they didn't do swimming until they were three.
SPEAKER_00Like yeah, when you are having a bad day and if they are sitting there nicely playing or doing something cute or cuddling each other, it is the the purest form of love, and it can change my mood instantly. And that is probably like another whole topic in itself, but like the roller coaster of emotions you feel in one day with twins, like rage, stimulation, pure happiness and love, like then rage again. Yeah, and yeah, and we definitely want to preface like we love our children, and we are just touching on some of the challenges that we feel like other parents and multiples might experience. There's no mum out there that hasn't felt some kind of guilt. So we're just trying to like open up this platform to touch on some of those things. To wrap things up, I do think if there's one thing we want mums to take away from this conversation is that mum guilt usually comes from caring so deeply. The fact that you're even questioning if you're doing enough probably means you already are.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. We know that one was a bit heavy, but thank you so much for listening and we hope you enjoyed it. See you later. That's a wrap for today on All At Once. We hope you laughed, maybe cried a little, and most importantly, felt seen while navigating the chaos of raising multiples.
SPEAKER_00We release new episodes every week. Subscribe to keep them coming. And if you want more in between, you can find us on TikTok and Instagram, sharing behind the scenes moments, practical tips, and exclusive guest insights. Or watch the full episode on YouTube. It's messy, loud, and beautiful. Life with multiples all at once.