All At Once

Twin Pregnancy, Pelvic Floor and What’s Normal vs Not (with the Mama Physio)

• Season 1 • Episode 6

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What actually happens to your body during a twin pregnancy, and what’s normal… and what’s not?

In this episode of All At Once, we’re joined by women’s health physio and mum of three, Jess (also known as Mama Physio). She works with pregnant and postpartum women every day, and is also in the thick of it herself with four month old twins and a toddler.

This isn’t just another conversation about twin pregnancy. It’s expert insight grounded in real experience.

We cover the physical realities of carrying twins, including common twin pregnancy symptoms, pelvic floor changes and what to expect during postpartum recovery.

In this episode, we discuss:

  • What’s normal in a twin pregnancy and when to pay attention
  • Pelvic floor health, pelvic girdle pain and why it can feel so intense
  • Exercise during pregnancy and the misinformation online
  • Whether strength and movement actually impact recovery after twins
  • Birth expectations and the problem with one size fits all advice
  • Raising twins as a twin, and how that shapes Jess’s perspective as a mum

Jess shares both her clinical expertise and personal experience, giving you clear, evidence-based guidance without the overwhelm.

If you’re pregnant with twins or in the early stages with multiples, this episode will help you understand what’s happening in your body and how to support it properly.

Follow along for the raw, unfiltered reality of raising multiples.

Thanks for being here.

If this resonated, sharing, rating or leaving a comment helps more parents of multiples find us.

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to All at Once, a podcast dedicated to raising multiples because life with multiples deserves its own space. Whether you're expecting twins already deep in the chaos or simply curious about life with multiples, you're in the right place. We're Sneade and Gabby, two mums with five kids between us, including two sets of twins, sharing honest, unfiltered stories about the highs, the lows, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_03

This is a safe space to laugh, cry, and feel understood all at once. Let's jump in! Today we're joined by Women's Health Physio Jess, also known as the Mama Physio. She's also a mum of three, including four-month-old twins, so this is a mix of expert advice and real life experience. We talk through what's actually normal in twin pregnancy plus pelvic floor, pain, and what to expect physically. Hi Jess, welcome to All at Once. For anyone that doesn't know you yet, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do for work, and who's in your family?

SPEAKER_01

Hi, so thank you so much for having me on here today. I'm so excited to chat to you both. So for those who don't know me, my name's Jess. I'm also known as the Mama Physio on social media. And I'm a women's health physio, a Pilates instructor, and a Pilates educator. I'm also a mum of three. I've recently had twin girls who are four months old. So we're kind of like just emerging from the trenches right now. And I've also got a two-year-old girl as well. So I've got three little girls. I'm just currently navigating my new normal as a mum of three.

SPEAKER_03

Sounds like you're busy doing it all at the moment. Are you working? Yes. Are you currently working as well or are you on maternity leave?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, and no. Like I'm on maternity leave from clinical work, but I mean like I have my online business as well, my app, social media that doesn't really stop. So it I haven't taken time off from that, but do you know what? It is kind of like a hobby as well. So I do enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, absolutely. It's always good to make some time for yourself as well between all of the chaos.

SPEAKER_00

Is um have you always been into women's health? And is that what always been your passion?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So it has been. When you go into physio, you your options are really like women's health or sports. And I knew that I didn't want to do sports physio because you know I wasn't really that into sports back then. Fair enough. And so I had an interest in women's health and I went into private practice and I was seeing all the pre and postnatal women, and I thought, you know what, I'm gonna specialise in this. But when I specialized, I just honestly had no idea that it was more than just like back pain in pregnancy. So I kind of fell into it in a way. Like I went back to university, did my postgrad, and realized that women's health is not just back pain, it's pelvic floor, prolapse, birth perimenopause, young children, everything like that. And you know, men have pelvic flaws as well. So um then that kind of like changed my career path. And I started working in a hospital and another private practice, and I lived overseas for a bit. And it I feel like my interest for women's health just grew and grew. I absolutely love my job at the moment. I just feel like working with women, it just feels empowering for me, but I love empowering women and we're kind of going through the journey together because I've, you know, I'm recently postpartum, I'm my second pregnancy and everything, and I'm going through that with my patients at the same time, and it feels really special. I can imagine.

SPEAKER_03

And you'd be making such a difference in these women's lives, which you know, a job that must feel so special.

SPEAKER_00

It also would have been so helpful coming into your pregnancies with already that knowledge.

SPEAKER_01

And it really does because I think there's constantly things popping up going, is this normal? Should I be worried? And I myself, I even worry about little things, and I have to like bring myself back and go, the clinician in me says, This is what I would say to my patient having these thoughts, and like calm myself down.

SPEAKER_03

Amazing. Well, can we rewind a little bit? So you have four-month-old twins. I would love to know if you could take us back to the moment you found out you were having twins. What was your initial reaction like?

SPEAKER_01

Um, oh my god, I just got like a big goosebumps when you asked that. Um, so do you know what it's funny because I'm actually a fraternal twin myself. Really? So yeah, so um I always knew, oh, I've got a twin sister. Um, I always knew that it was a possibility that I might have twins. But this twin pregnancy is my third pregnancy. So I feel like the first time I fell pregnant and I found out it wasn't twins, I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. And then the next time I fell pregnant and it wasn't twins, I thought, do you know what? I'm I mustn't have the gene. So it honestly did not cross my mind when I fell pregnant this time. And I'm not joking, I went and got my HCG levels tested. And I shouldn't really call out my OB because I work with him, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Um I got my HCG levels tested, and he looked at it and he goes to me, just so you know it's not twins.

SPEAKER_03

Oh I was expecting you to say it was like extremely high.

SPEAKER_01

No, it was really, it was on the lower end. Okay. And and I'd done the two blood tests, and like it's not like it had gone up higher than what you would expect.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So when I had the scan, I could actually see two babies when they he put the ultrasound probe on. But it honestly went over my head because I thought he told me there's not twins. So I think we got about like 10 minutes into the appointment, and he was like, let's okay, we've done the external scan, let's do an internal one. And then he goes, I'm just gonna bring your attention to this. And honestly, my like heart jumped out of my chest. And I honestly just went into shock. That's all I can just remember how I felt at the moment. And to be honest, it was probably it wasn't really a happy shock. I was actually a bit like, oh my God, just suddenly thinking, I'm gonna have three kids under two.

SPEAKER_03

What am I gonna do? It's funny. It's funny how our brains go to worst case in that scenario a lot of the time. It's just like all the negatives first. Or you go straight to logistics.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's a mum thing.

SPEAKER_01

We're just like, okay, hold on. How am I actually going? I was going, we need to sell our house. We need a new car. I'm gonna drive a Kia Carnival. What's gonna happen?

SPEAKER_03

The carnival, not the carnival. Was your partner with you in the room when you found out?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he was, and he was over the moon. Like he was so excited. Because it's so much easier for them. They don't have to do it. Yeah, yeah. They're like two for one deal.

SPEAKER_03

This is great. So, as you mentioned, twins running your family. Did being a twin yourself make that moment feel surreal or like oddly familiar?

SPEAKER_01

I'd say like both at the same time, to be honest. I feel like it felt surreal thinking that I've had my own experience as a twin growing up. Yeah. And now I'm going to view my daughters growing up that way. And I don't know, it's it's just this weird feeling going, this is what my mum felt seeing us grow up. And I get to experience that as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Do you have a close bond with your twin sister? Yeah, we're really, really close. Yeah, so that that's so nice. And you get to witness that now with your daughters.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it it just feels nice that I have the experience of twins and kind of knowing what things well, I know I know everyone's really different, but there's certain things like are they gonna have the same friendship groups? How are they gonna feel about not being invited to this play date or not being in the same class at school and things like that? Like all those little things I have like really strong beliefs about uh from my own upbringing that I just feel it's gonna be a bit easier for me to be able to relate to them, which I love.

SPEAKER_03

I feel like we could do a whole episode on that dynamic. You being a twin mum and having twins with your own lived experience. Is there anything that you're consciously doing different or intentionally the same? I know they're quite young, but have you already started thinking about if you're gonna split them up at school? Is there anything that you want to do different to say how you were raised as a twin?

SPEAKER_01

Well, firstly, just being absolutely completely fair and even with both of them. I I feel like every twin mum feels that way anyway about their twins. But um, you know, I did actually have a friend who's got twins message me and say, if I buy one a soft toy, do I have to buy it for both? And I was like, absolutely yes, definitely. And she was like, Yeah, but they won't know. And I'm like, no, they will, they're smart.

SPEAKER_03

Basically when they become toddlers.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. But I like I remember growing up, just really like there's a competitiveness between twins that's probably more than if they were siblings. And you really, really, really um hang on to like little things. Like she got a longer hug than what I did.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Or she got two kisses on the way out when you left. I only got one, like little things like that. So it's just knowing that like your children are really aware of those things. And then things like further down the line, me and my sister are very different people. We're different personalities. We don't even look like twins. He's blonde, blue eyes, freckly, but not being afraid to like put them in the same class because you know it's the same as if you have your friend in your class that's going to give you that confidence to do other things as well. You don't need to make them completely separate and put them in the deep end.

SPEAKER_03

Did you do every year level with your sister or did you split at a certain point at school?

SPEAKER_01

We we were actually in separate prep classes. Yeah. And then after a week we got put in together. Um, and then we did prep together, and every other year we did separate.

SPEAKER_03

Is that did you guys go to your parents to be like you want to be together, or did did the teachers pick up on it and put you in the same class? Like what made you return to the same class?

SPEAKER_01

I don't actually remember it, but mum said that I was probably the more confident and outgoing twin. And she said my sister was just really struggling being on there on her own and everything, so we'd be better off together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

If we if we come back to your twin pregnancy, I guess how did that twin pregnancy look for you? And how did it differ from what you knew the first time around?

SPEAKER_01

I would say to start with, they weren't too dissimilar. Well, in my first pregnancy, not a single pregnancy symptom. No money sickness, nothing. If anything, I had really bad anxiety because I didn't have symptoms. So until I started like feeling kicks and things like that and growing, I just every single day I'd be like, should I pay on another stick for the amount of money I wasted on pregnancy tests? And then the twin and pregnancy, I didn't really have many symptoms. But then again, the moment I did start to feel a little bit nauseous, I didn't hesitate to take anti-nausea medication because I can't be treating patients as a physio and vomit on my patients. Not ideal. So I did I did take things preventatively. So it's kind of hard to know how different it would have been, but I was taking stuff anyway. Past that point, the growth is just outrageous, especially as a second pregnancy. I was definitely the size of a full-term singleton at about 28 weeks. And I probably weighed like three times as much in my twin pregnancy compared to the singleton as well. It's just the growth is just outrageous. You wait, as you both know, you wake up every day and you go, there's no more room. So it finds space somewhere.

SPEAKER_00

It's crazy how it does. Somehow our body does it. Yeah. Um what about like movement in your well, both pregnancies? Did you were you able to keep like quite active and move? Or I guess as you get bigger, it's harder. But what did movement look like?

SPEAKER_01

Surprisingly, I actually didn't get any pain in either of my pregnancies. But I feel like, you know, I'm a physio. I like to practice what I preach. I was very much, I can't be that physio that's walking around dragging one leg because they can't walk. You know, I'm gonna practice what I preach. So to be honest, I felt pretty good pain-wise with both of my pregnancies, but the fatigue was next level with twins, just and running after the windows. And you had a toddler.

SPEAKER_03

I can't even, I don't, Gabby's got a toddler in the past.

SPEAKER_00

We have the same dynamic. My eldest was not even two when my twins were born. And yeah, it's like the I was looking back at photos of her just like putting stickers on my stomach because I think I was so tired that I was like, this is an activity that we can do lying down. This is a good one. I don't know how you both did it.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know how you did it. I don't, I I just I was horizontal for the majority of my pregnancy. I guess I was so exhausted, but I wasn't chasing after a tomb lot or props to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, any second pregnancy, whether like it's just whether it's twins or not, is harder because you just cannot sit down.

SPEAKER_01

No, it was really hard. Like I was sick of myself, I was sick of hearing myself complaining to people. Um, I was like, we need to get them out so I can be a positive person.

SPEAKER_03

But do you guys think that pregnant like your second pregnancies, your twin pregnancies went faster than say your first pregnancy because you were keeping up with the toddler? 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

See, my legs ever.

SPEAKER_00

But you also don't like I well, I found I didn't do all the things I did in the first pregnancy because just because it's your second and also life's busier, so you don't do all the, you know, like maybe even the photos or the special milestones.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's true, that's true.

SPEAKER_01

Because I feel like the first time you're like keeping track of what fruit you are, and I'm like, I just have no idea.

SPEAKER_03

I was so pedantic. I knew every week what fruit I was. I would like I had the app, but then I'd also go on Google and read all the like the larger updates. I was so invested. But yeah, I can see now how I would have uh very limited time to keep up to date with the fruits.

SPEAKER_00

I did like a weekly journal in Billy's pregnancy. Wow, that's never happened with the twins. I feel sad for them, but they don't know. No.

SPEAKER_03

So Jess, is there anything twin mums should be mindful of when it comes to move it while they're pregnant with twins? Anything different in comparison to say a singleton pregnancy?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I'd say the main thing is that because you're carrying two or three or more babies, you're at higher risk of experiencing pelvic floor issues, back pain, hip pain, rib pain, etc. Like that is a definite that that is the case. I think the main thing is that if you were gonna go into exercise, I would probably get medical approval before you do. Just because there's so many different variables, like, you know, I had DCDA, which is the lower risk. Yeah. But what if you have mono dye or something like that? Or, you know, you just don't know. So you just want to get clearance from your medical professional firstly, and also continue to as you go along through your pregnancy. Um, just be wary that it is you are more likely to get aches and pains and pelvic floor issues. So um even more reason to be exercising and finding the right exercises. And I probably actually advise mums of multiples to go see a physio and maybe do some clinical exercise. It doesn't have to be Pilates, but it might be clinical strength and conditioning or just rehab exercises, just more preventatively to make sure that those don't become issues because the moment they start, it's really hard to get on top of it, as you know, because it's like exponential growth.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. Do you find with your patients that those that were doing strength training, Pilates yoga, any of those kind of things prior to pregnancy, that they have like less pelvic floor issues, or do you find it's much of a muchness that really is case by case?

SPEAKER_01

I suppose like there's so many different factors. It's not just about your strength, it's also about how your birth went, how much weight you put on in pregnancy, how the pregnancy went, etc. But I'd say just generally speaking, if you have a good amount of strength and control in your body, you're less likely to experience, get a big diastasis recti, um, pelvic girdle pain, back pain, rib pain, and pelvic floor issues. And also because you're at like a higher level of strength and everything, once you've had the babies, it's way easier to get back and recover. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Speaking of pelvic girdle, I suffered with pelvic girdle for about 14 weeks. I was very much like you in my twin pregnancy. I didn't really have much morning sickness, didn't throw up once. I was pretty lucky in that way. But yeah, the pelvic girdle kicked in pretty early and it was quite insufferable through the pregnancy. Like I couldn't really walk far. I actually remember I was uh, I think I just wrapped um for maternity leave and I was in the twins' nursery, like, you know, sitting on the floor, putting all their um clothes into their drawers, holding them all, and I couldn't get back up. I literally could not get back up, and I had to crawl because my bedroom is on the other side of the house to the twins, and I remember having to crawl and climb onto my bed. I just couldn't get up, it was so painful. Are there like ways we can support our pelvic for during pregnancy? Like once you've got pelvic girdle, I I did go to a women's health physio and she gave me exercises to do, and I did do them, they did help a little bit, but as I as the pregnancy progressed and I got more tired and a little bit more lazy, I did stop doing it, which you know I knew I knew that wasn't the right thing to do. And I had a belt and things, and those things helped with the pressure a little bit. And surprisingly, once the twins came, that pelvic girdle pain went straight away. I couldn't believe it. I thought I was gonna be stuck with it forever. But yeah, is there anything we can do to kind of prevent it or just help maintain it at a certain threshold?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, oh my gosh. Your story, I feel like it's it is kind of it's so debilitating. Yes. That's the thing, it's not just like a bit of a oh, my back's achy. Because that's not pelvic girdle pain. Pelvic girdle pain is like sharp stabbing, someone is stabbing me at my back. Sounds horrible. So it's really debilitating. So just loads of different factors. The other thing is if you have any hypermobility or anything like that, you're at higher risk of getting it as well.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um so it's kind of a lot of the time I might be screening people for that as well and going, do you know what? We need to start the rehab exercises early because you're at higher risk of getting it. And obviously, like as a twin mum, you'd be higher risk as well. But keeping strong, but also keeping really mobile. I just seeing a physio is probably not enough because you've got to see the right physio, if that makes sense. Because I wouldn't just give someone exercises. I generally want to do a bit of hands-on treatment to make sure that there's enough mobility in your thoracic spine and mobility around the hips. And sometimes people get told, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this, move with your legs together. And then you almost narrow your ability to do anything really down, and you're too scared to like get off the chair and put your legs apart or get out of the car or step sideways anywhere or even walk, and then just think that that deconditions you and then you're probably actually going to get healthy girdle pain.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's probably gonna get worse. So, yeah, I think like there's not really one magic fix for it. It's just getting the right treatment um and being preventative, really. But yeah, the belts do really, really help. And also like not discounting how much massage helps as well. Like we like rehab, rehab exercises help, but like if you get the right hands-on treatment, it you will float off the table at the end of the session.

SPEAKER_03

I don't think any pregnant wet woman's gonna complain about getting massages, right?

SPEAKER_00

No, if you were to see a woman's health physio earlier on, is there a chance that Sinead might have like been able to prevent getting it?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, because I only went, I only went when I like the felt the pain. And I was like, what is this?

SPEAKER_01

Possibly possibly. I mean, like, I don't know exactly what the physio did with you, but I think possibly, and maybe if the treatment program was a little bit different, who knows? But then there's other things. For instance, you might be doing everything perfectly, but if you go walk the dog twice a day, then yeah, that's probably gonna flare it up. I was walking the dog twice a day.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, I actually was. I actually was.

SPEAKER_01

So that was bad. It's like little things like that, where it's like sometimes you just have to do absolutely nothing for a week, let things settle down, then slowly add it back in. Um, and you know, walking dogs, but you know, some people might have toddlers where they're like, you know, it's not realistic to just not lift my child.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. It's just like there's just some factors that you can't avoid. So as a physio and living in a social media world, is there anything that you see about um pregnancy exercise online that just makes you scream?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Where do I start? Um I would say like one thing that really frustrates me is seeing programs that like promise certain things. So do this, and you would going to have the perfect birth, or you're not going to tear and things like that. Because, you know, nothing is that. Yeah, nothing is definite. And I feel like there's a bit of a trend at the moment of people selling programs that mean that you're going to breathe your baby out. And I'm like, that's just not the case. And you know, they're the women who end up with birth trauma because they go in just with this almost unrealistic expectation and they of what their birth is going to look like, and they haven't considered any other options. So I feel like that's one thing. And then the other thing is just when I say people have really strict rules on what you can and can't do in pregnancy, because you know, even just in pregnancy itself, I reckon yesterday I saw someone post like, don't why you shouldn't twist in pregnancy. And that's just a normal everyday thing. What do you expect us to be like robots moving around? And actually, in terms of treating, for instance, like pelvic girdle pain, having mobility and rotation in your thoracic spine is super important. So if it gets stiff, you're actually gonna be in more pain.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So, you know, that's one of the things I've seen. But yeah, there's other things that I've seen online about like, oh, I I'm not even gonna go into it. But yeah, there's loads, there's loads of things like sugar. Loads of yeah, yeah, loads of unit. Educated people who are making non-evidence-based, like I'm always make sure that everything single thing I say in regards to pregnancy or pelvic floor is evidence-based. It's not my clinical opinion.

SPEAKER_00

If we go back to the birth in the early days, I guess what about your birth? Did you did you have a plan going into the twins' birth? Did it go to plan? And I guess how did it differ from your your first birth? My first baby was Breach.

SPEAKER_01

So I had an elective cesarean, which when I was going to fall pregnant again, I was thinking, should I do a V back? I'm not sure. And I, because I worked with my obstetrician, he knew that I that was my plan. But then the moment I found out it was twins, he was like, You're not gonna do a V back. I was like, yeah, you're right, we're gonna book in a cesarean. Um, but it it didn't go to plan in a sense that I had a date booked in for 37 weeks and my waters broke at 35 weeks. So yeah, so I suppose that didn't really go into plan. It started by lost my mucus plug, and I didn't worry too much because I work in the space. I know that doesn't mean anything's it's not inevitable that you're gonna give birth, you know, the next day. Sometimes that happens to people a month before they go into labor. That happened, and then in the middle of the night, I woke up and I was like, oh, have I just peed myself? And stood up, and it was like the movies, like yeah. Um and um thank God we have floorboards in the bedroom, yeah. That was all I can say. And I actually like went to the bathroom and turned on the light because I was thinking it could be urine, it could be blood or something. And I was like, oh my God, this is it. And I'm sitting on the toilet, like Googling about it, thinking, how much time do I have? Because it was about four in the morning and daycare opens at 6 30. And I was like thinking, oh, my husband's gonna be really stressed if I wake him up. And I was thinking, could I just pretend this didn't happen and just wait a bit? So I waited for a little bit and then I called the hospital and I was like, Do you think I could wait till 6 30? And she was like, uh, absolutely not. It's hilarious. Yeah. So I had to call my mum, she came around, and then I actually went in, started going into labor like really quickly. So by the time she got around, it was about half an hour, and I I didn't really realize because I was so stressed because I hadn't packed my hospital bag that well, I I'd like send, you know, when you like have your suitcase open and you've got the baby's clothes there, but like nothing else in it. Yeah, no tools. Um yeah. So I was running around the house quickly doing that, and I didn't realize that I was like starting to get contractions. And then by the time I left the house, I could like hardly move when there was a contraction, like I had to stop and pause leaving the door, going through the door. And then we would experience that the first time, either would you consider it? Yeah, so um I I yeah, I just didn't really expect it and I wasn't really thinking about it. I was kind of in survival mode. And then when I got into hospital and they asked me to get on the bed just to do a scan, and they I couldn't get on the bed. And then they were like, oh right, like she's in labor. And so then they were like, All right, this team of people came in and like scrubbed me up and were like, You're gonna see your babies. So it was, it was actually like a really nice moment then and the birth all went smoothly and everything. But then after things didn't go to plan, and I ended up in I ended up an ICU because it was kind of a funny turn of events in that it's nothing to me felt like it was an emergency, but I think I was a bit oblivious and drugged up, to be honest. Um, but they thought that I developed pre-eclampsia. The annoying thing was is the hospital that I was in didn't have an ICU. So I actually got taken to another hospital. Away from the babies. Yeah, and I had to leave them at that hospital. And then one of them had a little bit of breathing difficulties and got put in the incubator and stuff. So I feel like that whole 24 hours was just kind of like such a high and then such a low.

SPEAKER_03

Sorry, can I jump in there, Jess? Did you get to go through recovery? Like, did you get to hold the babies before you were taken off? Or was it basically you're on the table, they figure out something's going wrong, time to go, or you did make it to your room?

SPEAKER_01

No, I didn't make it to the room. So I went to recovery, I had them both on my chest, and they're like, Look, the smaller one's going to need a little bit of help. And I was like, totally fine, had the other one with me. Time just went. I feel like I was in recovery for about six or seven hours, and they um were just like, Look, your sats aren't going back to normal. We've even given you oxygen and everything like that. Like you could have pre-eclampsia, and which is really common in twin pregnancies or multiple pregnancies, just because your body is working harder. Um, and they were like, if it is, it's going to get worse before it gets better. So we're gonna do this. And I was really upset at the time just because I was thinking, how much is this gonna affect my ability to feed my babies? And you know, all those different things. That was r that was really, really hard. That happening. Um, I got back to the hospital probably like 36 hours later.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and I hadn't seen the twins that entire time.

SPEAKER_03

So was your husband just your partner with them?

SPEAKER_01

Like he was like running between the hospitals. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03

And so then so the no like who was feeding them? The nurses giving them formula?

SPEAKER_01

So when I was in recovery, there was midwife expressing colostrum. Um, and I had enough luckily then to kind of feed them. Um, and I'd said, like, I'm happy for you to give them formula if you need. And then luckily, I think it was probably lucky because I'd breastfed before that my milk kind of came in pretty quickly, and I had enough for them straight away. So I was really grateful for that. Um, but yeah, overall, like after my first delivery, I just remember being on cloud nine and just being like that for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks. And after this one, like it just felt like a massive, it just didn't meet my expectations. And it took me a while to like come around to that as well.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that that's interesting because like you usually, you know, you usually hear about the babies being taken to NICU or nursery. And there are cases where the mums are taken away, but you usually think within the same hospital. And it's not something we would really ever consider when you're like looking for your hospital, you know, you're like making sure they have the NICU, the nursery, but you're not really ever thinking about yourself because you're thinking that something's more likely gonna happen to the twins because they're, you know, the high they're high risk kind of thing. So that yeah, that sounds really horrible. I'm so sad that you were parted from them, but I'm glad um that you were okay at the other end of it. Did you end up having preclampsia?

SPEAKER_01

No, they like couldn't figure out exactly what had happened. I think I had a drug reaction or something like that.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Which was, I suppose it was like the best case scenario, to be honest. Of course, best to be you know, Satan, sorry.

SPEAKER_03

What a whirlwind. So when when women are pregnant with twins, is there anything that they can do to prepare their bodies for a cesarean or for a vaginal birth? Like, are there different routes you can take for each either kind of birth? Or is there even actually anything you can prepare for?

SPEAKER_01

I suppose I was thinking about this, and I I feel like in terms of preparing your body, it's much a muchness with preparing for a singleton. Say overall you want to be making sure that you're keeping your body strong. Because, for instance, if you want to have an active labor and vaginal birth, then you want to make sure you're pain-free because otherwise it's gonna really affect your ability to like go into labor and keep active and things like that. Especially if, you know, if your hips are really, really sore, it's gonna be another layer on top of that pain with labor as well. So that's kind of one component of it. And then there's if we're thinking more vaginal birth, preparing the pelvis and the pelvic floor. So I feel like a lot of people have this idea that, you know, you've got to do your pelvic floor exercises and get it strong. Actually, if you're gonna push a baby out, your pelvic floor needs to be able to relax. You need to have really good mobility around your pelvis and your pelvic floor. So a lot of the time it's kind of like keep it strong so you don't leak, but make sure it's really flexible as well, which is the same for twin pregnancies or multiple pregnancies and single pregnancy, singletons as well. And then cesareans really, I just encourage women to just keep as active as they can because you know it's gonna make your recovery easier if you've got that baseline level of strength.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I think the main, the main thing that's gonna be different between them though, is that you're more likely to experience the aches and pains in a multiple pregnancy. So it's just making sure that you're addressing those because it's probably likely to happen to you.

SPEAKER_00

I couldn't agree more about being strong. It's actually interesting. With my first, I think I was not very strong and I really struggled more with my singleton pregnancy and recovery. Whereas I was able to, luckily, I was able and wanted to move my body with the twins. But my recovery following the twins was 10 times better than that with a singleton, and I had a Caesar the second time when I didn't the first, and just like that, the difference in the strength. If you can, obviously it looks different for everyone, but you really do notice, I did personally, the difference in being strong.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's so interesting that even like a subsequent pregnancy and twins and a Caesarean vest of Jana Berth, you felt stronger.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Felt so good after my season, which is very lucky, but um, yeah, it knows makes a difference.

SPEAKER_03

Did you feel like you had Gabby, did you feel like you had done anything differently? Like were you training before you got pregnant with twins?

SPEAKER_00

I tried to move my body more in twin pregnancy, whereas with Billy, I didn't really do anything and I really noticed the the difference. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Interesting, interesting. Jess, what did your postpartum recovery look like for you?

SPEAKER_01

So I feel like I had a bit of a plan of what I would do, and it would be what I would recommend for my patients. It did because things didn't really go to plan, I didn't, for instance, get to have as much rest as I would have liked because when I went home, I was traveling between the hospital and home for a couple of weeks, um, which just means that you know you can't really rest horizontal when you like you might be sitting in the chairs a lot of the time in the special care nursery, but you're sitting upright. You're not, don't have your feet up lying down and things. But other than that difference, um I actually followed my online early postpartum program, which I filmed in my first pregnancy in postpartum. And I kind of I followed it and refined it this time round and like tweaked it a little bit with the evidence. So for instance, the program includes like a combination of educational things. So like the type of information you would receive from a physio in the hospital, which might be about going to the toilet, making sure you're emptying your bladder properly, not getting constipated, all those things, but also just gentle pelvic floor exercises, deep core exercises, and then slowly moving your body. But the additional thing that I added in this time was doing lots of crunches, like sit-ups, um, mini crunches early on, because there has been a lot of evidence in the last few years about that helping diastasis recti or ab separation heal. And what stage can people start trying to do that? As early as possible. So I probably did it from like week one or two, probably like seven days after. Um, and I was thinking, do you know what? This is like an experiment on myself because my ab separation was huge, like absolutely huge.

SPEAKER_03

Did you count it with the number of fingers? Is that what yeah?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was like two hands went in.

SPEAKER_03

I had six, I think. Six had six fingers. I didn't know if that was bad or good.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, like it's it's pretty big, yeah. But like it's it's amazing what our bodies do because I genuinely kind of self-assessed and had a bit of a freak out and was like, no, no, no, you can't do anything about it. Like, let's just do the rehab. And I just like cannot believe how much it has helped this time round. Like my ab separation is back to what it was after my first pregnancy, which I did not expect. But yeah, that's what I've tweaked this time round. I think like obviously I'm a physio, so I'm probably focusing a bit more on like the physical postpartum recovery. Um, but I think like in terms of mental health and all that as well, like I've really kind of like set up our village and support this time round because the first time I was very much like, it's my baby, I want to do it my way, I'm gonna do my own thing. Yeah, I don't need your help. Whereas this time I was like, no, mom, I want you to come round and help with the toddler for the first six weeks. Like my mum took a bit of time off work as well to help out. You know, we filled the fridge, uh freezer, sorry, and made sure that everything was like in place and we had a good village to help.

SPEAKER_00

How was the transition, particularly for your older daughter in that time? Like, did she handle it well? Was it difficult? It's a tricky juggle.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it is a tricky juggle. And it I suppose it depends on the the temperament of the child, but also like she's so young. She was how old was she? She was 22 months when they were born. So she like wasn't really old enough to understand what was going on. So she did, there was lots of tantrums. I reckon there was lots and lots of tantrums for probably the first three months. It's calmed down recently. Um but it's it's hard to do. Yeah, like it's gone from mum doing me, mum doing every single bedtime and bath and everything to not being involved in it at all and having like the person do it change every single night from my mum to my husband to my dad, and you know, all those different things, you know, they love routine and they thrive off it. So I think that was really hard. And there was a lot of her being like, put them down.

SPEAKER_03

I can imagine.

SPEAKER_01

Um, but she was never, she never like hurt that you hear of people where the child like tries to like slap the baby or whatever. She never was like that. It was just I could tell that her tantrums were just because she wasn't getting the attention she needed. Um I think you know that this is our new normal now.

SPEAKER_00

She's really adjusted to it well. Is she bonding with them like now? I mean, I mean she's obviously still so young, but like, do you find that she's like growing uh now she's getting used to them? It's getting more comfortable for her.

SPEAKER_01

Definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_03

And yeah, she goes up to them and does this cute, like little baby thing and like two feet. Oh my gosh, your heart just must mouth. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00

I promise it gets even better as well. It's it's getting really nice now. My daughter's four and the twins are two, and it's it's so nice now. It's really, really special.

SPEAKER_01

And I feel like it's a nice dynamic that you're taught that the single child is older as well. Yeah. Because um, you know, she'll probably boss them around and that's that's good.

SPEAKER_03

I think it is a good thing. I feel like my kids are so like when we go to social outings, if they've got a kid that's older than them, even by a year, they play so well, they'll follow that kid around. But if they're with kids their own age or younger, they're just yeah, they don't want to play with them, they're not interested. So I always find my girlfriends that have got an older sibling, like yourself and Gabby, like, I don't know, their their twins are better behaved. I don't even say that's because they're being busted. Yeah, they well, they like follow, they they have someone to learn from, I think. That's that look, I have no evidence of this. It's just like my me just watching like the dynamics of my friends. I have really found that to be the case.

SPEAKER_00

Did you have older siblings, Jess? Or you it's just you and your sister twins?

SPEAKER_01

No, we're the oldest, and we have a younger brother. And yeah, I do feel sorry for him because we ganged up on him a lot. And so we've been dressed in tutus and yeah, yeah. We cut his hair, we did everything. Like, so I feel like the the dynamics from my perspective, I'm glad that my that my daughter Annabelle is older. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You don't want her to go through what your brother went through. No. So we have touched on this a little bit, but a lot of twin mums experience core, pelvic floor, or back issues after birth. What's normal versus what's not when it comes to pelvic floor and core recovery?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so let me describe what normal would be and what I would tell a patient. So I would say it's normal to feel heavy in the pelvic floor in the first like four to six weeks. Don't worry about it in a sense that a lot of people will contact me at one to two weeks after birth and say, I think I've got a prolapse or something like that. And I go, no, that's normal. Like everything's stretched, the pelvic floor stretch is like two to three hundred percent of its resting length. And it does take a good 12 weeks minimum for everything to kind of go back. So I feel like people don't think about that and they don't realize that there is a bit of a space that's slowly recovering. So it's normal to feel heavy. It should alleviate close to the six-week mark, though. So if it prolonged past that, then I'd definitely be looking into it. And then I'd say it is probably normal to experience a little bit of leakage in the first day or two. Um, I wouldn't be too concerned if it was only a day or two. If it persisted past like a week onwards, then I would say that's not normal and definitely seek help. And then, you know, in terms of pain levels, it's normal to have pain from the stitches that requires panidol and urefin. I'd say if you have to take something stronger, that's not normal.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Um, especially past the point when you've been discharged home. And that's when I would definitely go seek an opinion or go see a physio. Um, and then in terms of like abdominal muscles and C-section and things like that, you know, it's normal to feel sore in the scar for a few weeks. It's normal to be taking your medication for a few weeks for pain relief and getting around. I'd say if you got to about that week by the end of the second week and you're probably into the third week and you're still taking pretty strong painkillers, that's not normal. I would go speak to someone about that. And then abdominal muscles, honestly, there's like such a broad range of normal. I never, I wouldn't really say to anyone like that's not normal. That's not normal. I just put everything into one category and go, it's normal to have the ab separation. It's definitely normal to have one straight after your deliver. And like all we can really do is focus on our rehabit and compression garments and things like that.

SPEAKER_03

I actually thought maybe we should get you to explain what the pelvic floor is because I I'm thinking there will be women on here that, you know, haven't wouldn't know what their pelvic floor is. Like a lot of the time you're only hearing this if you're, you know, someone that exercises or pregnant. So maybe we should just like touch on that just in case.

SPEAKER_01

True. Yes. So the pelvis is like the bony area where your hips are, and the pelvic floor is like a hammock, and let's say it starts at the pubic bone at the front and it slings around the urethra and back, around the vagina and back, and around the back passage or anus and back. And so it's this big hammock and sling that goes around to the coccyx and forward and then out to the side. So, and it's multiple muscles, and when uh it contracts, it kind of squeezes and it pulls forward and closes off those spaces. And it has a role in keeping you continent so you don't leak urine or poo, um, and keeping your organs up and also role in sexual function as well. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00

I'm just sitting here doing my kegels now. But it's like, are you more likely to have issues in a multiple pregnancy just because it's more pressure on the pelvic floor? Yes. Pretty much how it works. Definitely. What are the other most common physical challenges you see in parents of multiples throughout a twin pregnancy or after? And I guess would you you recommend it earlier on when you're pregnant to see a um a women's health physio? Would you also recommend that for anyone just postpartum as well to continue that journey?

SPEAKER_01

Definitely. I would I always tell everyone to see a physio at least once in your pregnancy. And ideally doing one, a birth preparation session close to your delivery, but definitely one in the first six weeks after birth. Um, if you've seen one in pregnancy, I'd do it at about six weeks because you've kind of you've probably all been already been given all that information to help you heal appropriately in the first six weeks. But if you haven't seen someone, that's when I would say like get in contact with the physio ASAP, see them, even if it's like two weeks after birth, because that first six weeks is a really important time that we want to capture you and um help with your recovery. Because if you miss that window for certain things like abdominal separation, then it is it's really hard to get your abs back if you've if you're past that three-month window, let's say. The best time we can do it is if we capture you early.

SPEAKER_03

Gabby, did you see a women's health video after that?

SPEAKER_00

Billy, but I didn't with the twins because I had a a a good recovery. Um but yeah, you probably knew what to do to a degree. Yeah, and I I just felt that things were okay. But I guess, yeah, it's probably a good thing either way to just be sure. Like, did you after?

SPEAKER_03

I had um there was a physio in the hospital that came and saw me during my five days' stay. So she did a check, and then I did I couldn't tell you when. I do think it was around the two weeks and maybe uh maybe three times in the first six to twelve weeks, somewhere a bit it's all easy now, but yes, and I had the every time it and I wasn't aware of this, but the internal examination.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or you did it, you weren't expecting it.

SPEAKER_03

No, I didn't really know what I was getting into. I just I think because I think in the hospital, I I believe she just was checking my abs and whatnot. I don't believe there was an internal um check. It wasn't till I went to the the independent clinic that the lady I was seeing prior, like when I was pregnant. And then I I think I did I have an ex do you have external examinations when you're pregnant? Yes, you can. Yeah. I I'm not sure if I did one of them at the when I was pregnant, but I definitely did. Yeah, there was a few afterwards.

SPEAKER_00

Everyone's touching and putting you everywhere.

SPEAKER_03

It's like Oh at that stage all all modesty is gone. I was like, do what you need to do, love. But yeah, no, um, I can't really remember what was yeah. Like I think it was talking through the ab separation, um, maybe some exercises and things into my recovery, but it's a bit blurry now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What about in the postpartum like things like when you've you've now got to lift two babies and um, you know, or you might have other children or feeding, is there anything to be aware of or modifications that you need to make? Like picking two babies up at the same time. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01

And if you've had a Caesar as well, like that's another element to it. Yes. I actually normally give patients a bit of reassurance that, you know, if you do you I know you get told, don't lift any other children, don't lift more than five kilos, don't do this, don't do this. I'm like, it's something bad's not gonna happen if you do need to lift your toddler. Like, just make sure you do it properly. Yeah. So for instance, um, you know, I I might see someone who has a cesarean, they have twins, and they've got a two-year-old at home, and their husband goes back to work at three weeks postpartum, and they just like they have no other choice. And I'll say, Well, look, just try not to lift the toddler for the first two weeks. And then when you have to like do little things like teach them how to climb up onto the couch. And so if you have to carry them, you're not lifting them from the ground, you're like grabbing them from a higher surface, for instance. That's a big thing I teach women, and then also using what we call the knack, which is when you like pre-time your pelvic floor and lower stomach contraction before you lift heavy things.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I did not know that. So just it's kind of bracing and pre-supporting the area.

SPEAKER_03

Right. I did not do that. So I'm having a lot of lower back issues now. Are there any other like simple ways that mums can protect their bodies in their recovery in those early weeks? Any other little tips or tricks you've got from?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, compression garments and getting the right pair for sure. Um I kind of like I had a variety of brands that I recommend. I ended up just getting all of them and rotating them. Um, but wearing compression, either underwear, leggings, or shorts, people always message me and say, Oh, which one should I get? And go, well, they're all providing the same same amount of compression. It's more just like, what do you prefer? Yeah. Um, because you know, if you're in Queensland and it's hot, you're probably gonna prefer the high-waisted underwear that you can wear under a dress or something like that, versus, you know, Melbourne right now, you probably get leggings. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I did the underwear and the the shorts. Yeah. Lived in those shorts.

SPEAKER_00

I only recently just got rid of mine because I was like, no, I think it's time you can let go. So, what about uh bouncing back? There's so much pressure to bounce back or get get back into movement. What does being ready to exercise actually mean after multiples?

SPEAKER_01

There is so much out there in terms of like bouncing back, but even just like unrealistic expectations of what people are going to look like at six weeks postpartum. If I had a dollar for every mum that came back for their six-week check and kind of like when I was checking their abs, said to me, like, when is this gonna go back? And had a bit of like an emotional moment about it, I'd be so rich because like honestly, so many people don't realize that the six-week mark is not healed. Like you're it's just like a moment in time and it's gonna take at least nine months minimum for your body to feel like it's you again. And a lot of women just expect that everything's gonna snap back without even doing anything. Yeah. So, yeah. So I feel that it's obviously like getting your head around that is important, but I think doing the right type of exercise is important if you want to support your body. So, not just going, I've hit six weeks, I've had my clearance, I'm gonna go attend that fitness class at the gym that I used to attend. It's about doing it the right way and following the rehab program, which is graded exercise, it's gonna actually build your strength from the inside out. So focusing on your pelvic floor, deep core muscles, then layering on things from there, so that you will get to a point at around three months postpartum where you feel really confident that if you did want to go run or lift heavier weights, that you know that you're going to be fine doing that. And that's kind of that's actually how I developed my online app is because I just felt like I had so many patients that um I did I just didn't really have anywhere to refer them because they it actually it was the middle of COVID when I started it, firstly. So like they couldn't actually attend studios down here in Melbourne, firstly. But secondly, it just wasn't feasible for me to see a patient every week to be progressing their exercises. So I thought, why not me just make a program that I the same, because most of them are doing something quite similar anyway, make something online that will fill this gap that I have for my patients and I can send them onto that. And it's essentially like I call it like move with the mama physio because it is, it is this the exercises you would get if you came and saw me in clinic for a physio session.

SPEAKER_03

What a fantastic idea. I bet that's helping mums so much. Can you tell us a little bit more? Does it, does it cater to parents of multiples or is it the same recovery journey for both?

SPEAKER_01

The the recovery is going to be like relatively similar because I suppose like there's women who have just one baby and there's a spectrum of that as well. So it is like broken into different segments. So like the pregnancy one, there's the classes each week and it's week by week. But when I run the class, I give different levels of difficulty as well. So it'll cater for someone who's like a beginner and someone who's a bit more advanced as well. And the same in the postpartum classes.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, awesome. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. I was gonna say the one thing, other thing I would recommend, which is so helpful, I found, is that if you can try and find like a mums and bubs class, um, I loved that, particularly just for like your mental health. I thought it was like I joined one and or or not even a mums and bubs class, but anywhere where you can take your babies with you that if you feel you're ready to for like my mental health, that was like the best thing I could do just to actually get out of the house and move your body at the same time while connecting with other mums. I just loved that. So that would be a big recommendation for me.

SPEAKER_03

I love that. I wish I did that. I I saw him and I I got too nervous and I didn't do it. And like in hindsight, I'm like, oh, I just wish I did.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. I I did a mums and bubs Pilates class yesterday, actually, but I think I've I've like just reached the point where it's probably too hard. Yeah. I feel like up until this point, I've gone most weeks and I've and everyone's like, Wow, they're amazing. And I'm like, Yeah, because they're still sleepy. Yeah, like they haven't woken up yet.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Yeah, that's definitely that's how do it happen to be. I kind of I started joining Pilates myself, and then they talked about the the mums and bobs class, and I was weird about that. I think maybe around five months, and I was like, no way, no. Do it while you can, yeah, do it as soon as you can if you're able to, because um, you've only got a small window, I feel whether you'll still sit in the pram or lie on the floor and then it's like. Otherwise, you'll be doing only 10 minutes of that class.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Um, what are some signs to look out for that you might be ready to return for movement? Is it sort of just based on how you feel, or is there anything in particular that you know you should be looking out for?

SPEAKER_01

I suppose it depends what movement it is you want to go back to. Like, for instance, if you were gonna go back to running, I would want to know that like you didn't have any aches or pains, you could jump on the spot and and hop and things like that, and it's pain-free, you're not leaking, um, and all that. And then and then it'd be like, okay, you get the old clear, but you have to go back braided. Or if you were gonna go lift weights at the gym and things like that, you like obviously you want to make sure that you it's no heaviness, no leakage, no aches, no pains anywhere in the body.

SPEAKER_00

For those deep in twin exhaustion, where where do you think is a good place to start? And I guess it would be in the move with Mama Physio app. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Um, yes, because I've been there and yes, I definitely just thinking about like what is manageable at the moment. I think if you're deep in the twin exhaustion, leaving the house and going to a studio is just like not gonna happen because you know, even things to factor in, I was uh exclusively pumping, I'd like feed them and then I'd be like, Well, I can't go to a class with my boobs about to explode, like things like that and factoring it in. So I think doing something at home, something that you like, and just starting really small, like even if it's five minutes of movement, and then generally what happens is you do the five minutes and then you go, Oh, I feel I'm getting those endorphins, I'm feeling a little bit better. And then you might do 10 minutes and you can add on from there, but don't overcommit to doing half an hour of exercise at the start. Always start with committing to five and then add on from there, and then also like don't be afraid to exercise when your baby's awake.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Um, because like it's you know, it's entertainment for them. Yeah. Yes, that's such a good point.

SPEAKER_03

It is, it is, it is. I think I just look back and I I I just was like, was I so dazed and out of it? Like I'm, you know, it's so much crazier in the toddler stage now. And like I felt like I've got a lot more free time now. But with the newborn stage, it was so regimented and structured. But I just felt like I was just glued to the pump. I was just in my like, I was just in my schedules so deeply that I just didn't make time for fitness. And like looking back, I think I could have made time. How how do we reframe movement as support? It not something like that's selfish, like you know, I know we're like pumping, we're cleaning pump parts, we're making bottles, we're doing all these things. Like, yeah, I think I just felt like selfish if I in those early weeks, if I did something for myself.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like it kind of comes back to how like being a mum, it's really hard to pour from an empty cup.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And so you really do have to be selfish in a way that, you know, you've got to do things that you like that make you feel better, that fill your cup, so that you can be a better parent as well. Um, and I feel like I've learned that from after my first pregnancy, whereas this time round, both me and my husband know from early days we were kind of taking the slack off each other so that we could go exercise, go catch up with friends, go on a walk on our own and not have to take the babies and things like that, because we both knew that we would be better parents and we wouldn't be yapping at each other at the end of the day. Yeah, if we'd like had that me time and things that we enjoy.

SPEAKER_03

That's really interesting. I always kind of think now if I were to have another child, like I don't regret anything I did with the twins, but like I do see what I would do different if we were to have twins together, if we had another child, and like how how quickly I would probably jump into making sure and ensuring that I make time for myself. Because I really don't think I had started to do that until like at least the four-month, five-month mark.

SPEAKER_00

And I think that's how you get to burnout, the point of burnout, because you're not doing anything, and then all of a sudden, like in that newborn stage, it's sort of like the adrenaline's there, or I don't know, somehow you survive, and then all of a sudden it hits you. Oh gosh, I I'm actually I need some space or just some time to look at it.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like the hormones like drop off. Yeah, like the hormones help you, and then you get to like three and a half months, and they're like, see ya. Yeah, survive on your own now.

SPEAKER_00

And all of a sudden the village stops helping at that point, and everyone's moved on.

SPEAKER_03

So and the babies become aware, like you guys have said, they're not sleeping newborns, and like you're like, I have to actually like really entertain these children. Yes, yeah. It's an extra added layer.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um, if we go into, you know, you have both um the clinical perspective and lived experience. How has having twins changed how you now practice um in both in your clinic and in your programs?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'd say I would say the way that I practiced changed more when I just gave birth in general. Like I'd say it was probably after my first, and it's probably just more of an appreciation for how hard being a mum is. And that um, yeah, there just little things, the way that I would even prescribe exercises, like they don't have time for that. Yeah. Um I turn kind of turn around and go, like, what what do you actually have time for? Are you gonna do these exercises? Even having those conversations with them. And a lot of them are like, I don't have time for this. Or realistically, I have five minutes. Yeah. Or we have a discussion about when in the day are they going to do their exercises and I and we figure it out together so that they're definitely going to do it. And then things, even rebooking patients and all that, or it just treatment plans, just being a bit more flexible on you know what they want versus me going, this is the perfect treatment plan, and you need to come in every week. Um, like someone said to me the other day, like, go see this practitioner, and they were like an hour drive away. And I was like, Well, that's not gonna happen. Because that's an entire day.

SPEAKER_03

The logistics behind it. Yeah. We could we could we could imagine.

SPEAKER_00

Rebooking at the time of your appointment. Because if I don't rebook, I'm not going back. Yeah. If someone doesn't do that for me, um, yeah, that's over.

SPEAKER_03

I know the amount of times I meant meant to make appointments, and it can take like four to five months before I even pick up the phone and make the appointment. Like so bad.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, I'd love to know how did twins change your relationship with your own body?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, good question. I would say I really struggled when I was pregnant with the fact that like I was going to change so much more than the first time round. Because the first time round, my bump was pretty small, to be honest. And I still felt like it reached the limits at that point. And so, like, a part of me was like in the nicest way possible, I was like, oh my God, this is gonna ruin my body. And like it was a lot to deal with in that regard. But you know what? Like the female, this is just one thing I've learned is how amazing the female body is, and your hormones really support your body through the pregnancy and grow two babies, allow it to stretch, allow things to go back. It is honestly absolutely amazing. But I would say there was definitely challenges throughout where I would just suddenly be like, oh my God, a stretch mark, my belly buttons definitely got a hernia now. Little things like that where you just like freak out about it and you have to kind of step back and look at the bigger picture and go, I have two beautiful girls now.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

And I think when I was pregnant, it was harder to appreciate that that. But now that they're here, I'm oh, I wouldn't take it back to the world. Absolutely love my twins and I wouldn't wish it away at all. It's and it's I feel sad that I kind of there was points when I was pregnant where I was like, I feel sad that I'm not gonna have the second baby that's a singleton that's gonna be super easy and they're just gonna like follow me around. I felt really sad about that. But once I'd kind of grieved it, like it it is the best thing ever, and it's nice to be a part of like twin club now. Yeah, not twin club, you know, there's just a community of twin mums now. And you kind of look at each other and you're like, I get you.

SPEAKER_03

I get you. You know, it's like even an unspoken bond, like you can just see another twin mum in the shop and they see you, and it's just like, I get it, girl. I get it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there's there's still totally valid feelings, though, to feel at the time, I think, and nothing to feel bad about. But like also it is that moment once you realize, oh my god, I grew and birthed two humans, and you're like, I'm amazing. Like it's I remember afterwards, I was like, whoa, go me.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

It's crazy what we've what we've done. It still blows my mind. I know, I know. When you like we don't really get like often have time to reflect because we're so busy. But when you do, it is like crazies. But did you ever have a moment like was there ever a specific moment where you're like, I don't recognize my body?

SPEAKER_01

Definitely, yeah, definitely. Because I'd say the recovery after twins versus one baby was just so different just because your uterus has stretched twice as far, et cetera, et cetera. Your stomach has stretched twice as far. And I think there got there got to a point at about two months postpartum where I was, oh okay, this is like my new normal, and I don't fit anything in the cupboard.

SPEAKER_03

No. And I was like, I'm gonna have to.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I was like, I like, do I throw everything out and replace my entire wardrobe or not? Or do I, yeah, and just like coming to terms with like, no, this is like the new me now. I've got three kids and this, yeah. And I think I'd say it was probably at that point, because at that point after my first was when I felt like I was fitting back in my jeans and all those things. And I was like, okay, maybe it's just not gonna happen this time, but I feel okay about that because I'm older, I'm more wise, and I've got three kids to show for it. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

But but I do relate to like I I remember when I like my my twins are my only, you know, the the only kids I have. And when I was going through that pregnancy and I I worked in fashion and um I was working in fashion while I was pregnant, and I was just remembered I was like so excited when I got pregnant that I'd have this cute little bump and I could wear all the cute little clothes and have my the jeans below my belly and have my belly popping out and whatnot. But I grew so like so big so fast, it was just like I I skipped that stage altogether. Like there was I really, really struggled to get dressed, and it was it was really hard because you're obviously not feeling yourself already, and then nothing in your wardrobe fits. And I was buying, I was like trying to buy, I basically had to buy the postpartum clothes because there was nothing that would really fit me, or if I did buy the larger sizes, it just proportionately, it just wouldn't fit around the bump kind of thing. But like you, it was the same thing. I just had to keep reminding myself, I'm doing something super special here. I'm carrying two babies. Not many people get to experience that. Like whatever happens to my body, I'm gonna be so grateful. And all that matters to me is I have my two healthy babies at the end of it. But I do think we all we all probably go through that stage where we're just like, whoa, we don't fit anything.

SPEAKER_00

You're balancing life as a mum of three and your own business. Has your ambition um shifted since then?

SPEAKER_01

I would actually say, if anything, I kind of it hasn't shifted. And if anything, I kind of want to get back to work. I feel this because I miss that part of me because I feel I love like I love being a mum so much, but like it isn't, I'm not just a mum.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And so I kind of like really look forward to the point when I can go back to work. I'm not gonna go back full-time, I'll go back two days a week in the middle of the year when they're nine months, but I'm actually really looking forward to that and having that part of me where I can like think about other things and talk about other things and babies sleep and poo and things like that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you know. No one, no one speaks to that. Like it's okay if you want something more than just being a mum. Like, that's that's also fine. It's great.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

But I also feel like I feel really lucky that with my work it is flexible as well, because um, I probably wouldn't feel this way about my work and ambitious about like what I do if it wasn't like a very supportive career with what I do. Um, you know, in that I I work for myself. I can change my own hours, I can work within the hours that like I would like to do, or I can work when there are napping and things like that as well. Love that for you. No, that's gonna work out really well.

SPEAKER_03

No, that yeah, that's awesome. Okay, we love to close out each episode with some rapid fire questions. We're gonna finish with some quick ones. Are you ready? Uh-huh. When you hear the word strength, what comes to mind?

SPEAKER_01

Uh, any mum of multiples. I think is that a tricky question. Both mentally, both mentally, but physically as well. Like, come on, lifting to like one-year-olds or more.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Very much.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. It's heavy work. Yeah. Um, one thing twin motherhood has forced you to let go of.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, definitely letting go of like my perfectionism and control for sure. Like just being done is all we need for everything. It just needs to be done and good. We don't need to have everything done perfectly.

SPEAKER_03

I love that. It's a very honest answer. What's your biggest myth about bouncing back?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that six weeks is not the magic number. So that's just the point in time. It's definitely going to take at least nine months to get back to how you felt because it took that long to grow the baby.

SPEAKER_03

Babies very important message.

SPEAKER_00

Um, finish this sentence. Strength in this season looks like.

SPEAKER_01

Strength in this season looks like being able to accept that you can't do everything on your own and accepting help, but also asking for help as well. Because I feel like there's always people offering and they really mean it. And I feel like it's so easy to just autopilot, go, no, I'm fine, no, I'm fine, no, I'm fine. And it's even harder, it's really hard to say yes, but it's even harder to kind of actually message someone and go, do you know what? I'd really like it if you could come around and just watch my babies so I can like have go wash my hair or something like that.

SPEAKER_03

That's so true. And that's so true about the autopilot. I feel like we really all do just go, yep, yeah, it's fine. I'm doing good, I'm all good. But like until you know yeah, they they wouldn't ask if they didn't mean it. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

What's one piece of advice for a twin mum in the trenches right now? Do you know what? My best advice would be connecting with other twin mums because I like I actually have I feel really lucky that one of my best friends actually had twins a week after me. Oh wow. Really nice. And it's just nobody else gets it. It's it's so different. And I think if I was in like the normal um council mothers group, I probably it just would have been really hard because people would be comparing apples with oranges.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Oh, that's so good that you have that support and someone that's gonna relate, you know, you're so one of those.

SPEAKER_00

We're going through it together in series.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

All right, I'll finish up with one that we finish on every episode. What The hill you die on when it comes to raising multiples.

SPEAKER_01

This is probably really controversial, but it is that routine and schedules is the way to go with twins. And like I've I've done both. I've done with singleton, you know, go by on go on demand, but like it I like could not get a single thing done if I did that with twins.

SPEAKER_03

Gabby Gabby was the same, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00

The first time I was like, oh, we don't have to do any routines. And then I I realized at four months, no, you you need routines.

SPEAKER_03

But I love that you both got to experience both, you know, versions. So yeah, yeah. But Jess, we can hear the twins in the background. So I think it's time they've woken up from end out. But thank you so much for joining us. I genuinely think there'll be so many women listening who had no idea about some of the things we've talked about today, including myself. So thank you for sharing your expertise with us.

SPEAKER_01

Well, thank you so much for having me. It was so lovely to chat with you both today.

SPEAKER_03

You too.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks, Jess. That's a wrap for today on All at Once.

SPEAKER_03

We hope you laughed, maybe cried a little, and most importantly, felt seen while navigating the chaos of raising multiples. We release new episodes every week. Subscribe to keep them coming. And if you want more in between, you can find us on TikTok and Instagram. Sharing behind the scenes moments, practical tips, and exclusive guest insights. Or watch the full episode on YouTube. It's messy, loud, and beautiful. Life with multiples all at once.