Premmie Twins, NICU & Trusting Your Instincts When No One Listens with Chontel Duncan

What happens when your twins arrive at 31 weeks… and you don’t get to take them home?

In this episode of All At Once, we’re joined by Chontel Duncan — mum of five, fitness entrepreneur, and twin mum — who shares her experience of going from three young kids to five, navigating high-risk pregnancies, premature birth, and six weeks in the NICU with twins. 

From being separated from her twin babies at birth, to walking out of hospital without them, to later having to perform CPR on her own child — this is a deeply honest conversation about the realities of early motherhood when things don’t go to plan.

We talk about advocating for your babies, making high-pressure medical decisions, feeding choices, and learning to trust your instincts — even when no one else is listening.

In this episode, we cover:

• A high-risk twin pregnancy and premature birth at 31 weeks
• What NICU life is really like as a parent
• Leaving hospital without your babies
• A medical emergency no parent expects
• Navigating feeding choices and external pressure
• Returning to fitness postpartum in a realistic way
• Managing five young children, business, and mental load

If you’re navigating a high-risk pregnancy, NICU, or life with multiples — this episode will make you feel less alone.

Follow along for the raw, unfiltered reality of raising multiples.

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• TikTok: @allatonce__
• YouTube: @allatonce_co

Thanks for being here.

If this resonated, sharing, rating or leaving a comment helps more parents of multiples find us.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:04

Welcome to All at Once, a podcast dedicated to raising multiples because life with multiples deserves its own space.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Whether you're expecting twins already deep in the chaos or simply curious about life with multiples, you're in the right place.

SPEAKER_04 0:16

We're Sineade and Gabby, two mums with five kids between us, including two sets of twins, sharing honest, unfiltered stories about the highs, the lows, and everything in between. This is a safe space to laugh, cry, and feel understood all at once. Let's jump in! Finding out you're having twins is one thing. Finding out when you already have three little kids, no family support, and after a previous high-risk pregnancy is something else entirely. In this episode, we're joined by Chantal Duncan, mum of five and fitness entrepreneur, who takes us back to the moment she found out she was having twins. What it was like navigating high-risk pregnancies, premature birth at 31 weeks, time in the NICU, and the terrifying medical scare that followed once her twins came home. This conversation is raw, emotional, and incredibly powerful. We talk about fear, resilience, maternal instinct, letting go of perfection, and what it really looks like to survive a season that asks everything of you. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Hi Chantal, welcome to All at Once. We're so excited to have you here today. I guess for those who don't know you, are you able to tell us a little bit about yourself and your family?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

My name is Chantal Duncan. I am 37 now. I have five children. I had them in under five years. Wow. I have one set of twins who are my youngest. I am married to my high school sweetheart. He is hands down my biggest flex, is my husband, my children's dad. We met when I was 14 in high school. And we've you know grown up together. We run two companies together. So we have a tech business, which is an app and it's a fitness app. We're both trainers. He's a nutritionist. And we also run a gym and have for about going on 14 years now.

SPEAKER_04 1:58

Wow, you sound like a great team. And five children, I'm impressed already.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

I'm struggling with three. I did two. I struggled with one. It's almost like you don't know what you've got inside of you until it's in front of you to work. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 2:15

Can you take us back to the moment you found out you're expecting twins? I heard that you manifested twins. Have you always is this true? And have you always wanted a big family?

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Okay, let's go back to the man. We'll start with manifesting. It was unintentionally happening. And it started off when I met my husband. He has three siblings. So he was one of four, he's the eldest, all boys. And I had one sister, and we would clash and hold grudges, and it would take a while before we'd get back to hanging out again. As sisters do. Yeah, and we are very opposite personalities. Intro, I'm extra, very extroverted and very active and full-on. And it was so boring to be real. I would go to my husband's house as a teenager, and they would be jumping off the roof onto the trampoline. They would be wrestling, they would be all playing together, they would have a blow, but get back and be friends within moments. It was remarkable how quickly they would turn around and be best mates again and go hang out and go ride their bikes. And I just went, I need more than one child. I want lots. I want a busy house. I want boys because they seem to be happier and they get over things really quickly. They don't dwell, they don't hold grudges, they're not catty. And that's where it started, the four. Right. Wanting four children. But I wasn't saying it out loud. It's just something that I really admired. And then wanting boys. Anyways, so went into the first pregnancy, had a boy.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

Just making things working.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

And then straight away went in to try for our next really quickly, and they're 18 months, 18 months apart. And another boy, so happy. Yes, loved it. I was tired. Yeah. Thought, I'm only halfway. This is so exhausting. My body is starting to break down. It's not as easy as the first pregnancy, and it's not as easy to juggle. And I could do one more pregnancy, but let's just make it twins so I can hurry up. And I was craving a girl at that point. And I would never openly say these things because I'm very aware of being in that mindset that life is happening for you and you get what you get and you don't get upset. I love that. But it's you can dream and you can you can um have wishes and things and you know, and so I thought, I'll go to my OB because we were using the same OB. And I said, How likely is it that I can get twins? I just can't do another pregnancy. They can't do two more pregnancies. He he's like, I don't know how to take you because I'm so sarcastic and I joke a lot. And I'm like, I don't know, is it possible? And he said, I can take you to a fertility clinic, and you can definitely get two um like I I can't remember how it can be it works, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

But that can become that can become three or that could become four. Have you heard of Octomum? Oh my gosh, could you imagine? And that would have been a very busy house. He said my best advice for you is I wouldn't because you are you're beautifully falling pregnant, and I would think there would be a high chance. Yeah, things could um multiply. And you hold a very demanding job, your body is your product, and you're doing so well carrying your singletons, it's going to be hard on your body. It could really affect your bladder control, it could really affect your pelvic floor, like twins double everything, and you're getting older, it makes things harder. He said, just be careful. Yeah. What you what you wish for. I was like, no race. It's okay. Uh scared. So went in and fell pregnant with our third, and that was a boy. Oh my god. It was a high-risk pregnancy. Okay. Um, a bit scary. We said, we're not doing that again. That was too much on my mental health, on my husband, on our family. I need to be serious about this. And I'm so grateful to have three healthy babies and be done. So we were very content with that. And then I thought, that's it. We're having three boys, not getting the girl, not getting the four kids. This is what life is meant to be for us. And then we just must have had a couple of drinks and had a really fun night, and we fell pregnant and I wasn't aware for a while. Uh, it came to around six weeks, and we had a pregnancy test left. You always keep it.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Yeah, they were just like, Yeah, just I could have blocked still them, and I'm not planning to have any more.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah, and you just keep them in your bathroom drawer, and I felt so off. And you know when you have twins because everything doubles. And I thought my husband has slept in the room with my eldest because he was unwell, and that's something that we like to monitor.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

And I went and did the pregnancy test. He was still asleep, and I thought, there's no way I know you would do it, but it's always good to do it in the morning with your first toilet um break. So I did that, and he was still asleep, and it came up straight away. And I've never had a clear line, it was always a faint line. And we were living with my best friend and her four girls because they were renovating and I didn't want them to go get a rental why they needed a residence for only six months. So I said, we've got a movie room and one spare room downstairs. Let's all live together. In the chaos. So I was sneaking in and trying to be a little bit quiet. I didn't need anyone to hear this. And I looked at him, and my first instinct was to just peg it at him. The four guy. And he goes, what? And I'm like, bruh. He goes, Oh my god. You always wanted four. I was like, I know, but our baby is only like eight months old. Oh my gosh. Oh, okay. And or seven months old as well.

SPEAKER_04 8:11

Wait, how old are all the kids right now at this stage?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Three, two, and not even one. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 8:18

And so you're already very busy.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Yeah. And he was like, oh well, you got you got what you wished for, Sean. And I was like, yes, we did. Okay, no worries. And then we eventually told our friends, and um, my best friend's husband was like, would be funny if you had twins, hey?

SPEAKER_04 8:34

Someone always makes that joke. Someone always makes those jokes.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

So be careful because you might have twins. And be careful what you wish for. I had so much work going on, I had to go fly interstate on things for fitness, and I just could not get over how sick I was.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Was that quite different to your three previous pregnancies?

SPEAKER_00 8:52

The third, I was sick, but not like this. The first two, I thought, why do women complain about pregnancy? Then I got, then I hit 30. I could not, I could not fathom how unwell I was being on a high risk and bed rest and not being out of train, mental health declining rapidly, trying to parent and work. And I was eating my words. Yeah. It was really embarrassing. And I needed to experience that because I needed to be grounded and humbled in this experience. And so, anyways, I eventually went to the scan to go get that checked. And I've been in this one room three times. Yeah. They didn't turn the TV on. We walked in, we had masks on, and I said to the lady, make sure you uh prepare me if it's twins, because I'll be punching my husband in the throat. Was he there with you? He was with me. And the lady's like, huh? Again, not understanding I'm quite sarcastic. I was like, Yeah, we already have um three children, really little children, no grandparents on either side. We don't have any support. It's just us. We also have another um family of six living with us at um I don't, you know, just one would be lovely, being so unaware of what's going on. And I got into the room and she wouldn't turn the TV on. She said, Oh, I can't reach, you can't turn it up. And I was like, I can. And you've got a remote. That's all good. I've been here. I'm just not gonna say anything. I'm holding Sam's hand and she's looking at the screen, not saying anything, and then she's like, I'm gonna go get my manager. Could only be two things, right? Right, yeah. She leaves and I said to Sam, I I know it's twins. And he goes, Why? And I'm like, because this is what we asked for. Yeah. Wow. That is why. Someone knows that we get to do life again and we get to start life again properly and have the life we should have had.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

Sometimes the universe takes us really literally.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah. And I I was like, I bet you it is. He goes, Shawnee, don't stress, just wait till they come. The lady comes in and she's like, All right, I'm gonna turn the TV on. Can you please hold your husband's hand? And what are you thinking at this stage? I'm thinking if you're like if you're about to turn the TV on, it's positive. Because if it was news, I wouldn't be able to see it on the screen. True, yeah. Yeah. Bad news. And my your brain's rolling, and she turns the TV on. And I said, Is that a split screen? She's like, No, I'm sorry. Because she hasn't heard the story, she hasn't got the backstory yet. I'm so excited to tell you you're having twins.

unknown 11:24

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

And we lucky we had a mask on.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

She goes, and they are the healthiest type of twins to carry. Saturday. The centers are on the opposite end, they're separate babies. Congratulations. And they're both even size too. I was crying. I couldn't hold it in. I was, yeah, it just happened. It's like this heat rush went over my body. My hands squeezed my husband, husband's, and I just started crying. And she's like, Do you have any questions? And I couldn't talk. I was just going to shock. Blubbering under my mask. And I just went silent. And my husband's like, that's amazing. Thank you. We're such people pleasing, but obviously I can't talk at this point. And he's like, Thank you so much. Um, wow. Wow. Yeah, that's really all you can say in that moment. And she's like, all right, well, I'm gonna leave you with, you know, and she could feel the awkwardness and left. Um, the lady's like, okay, well, I hope you've got help at home. I'm like, no, we don't. I don't have a relationship with my parents, and he doesn't either. And I'm like, and we're housing friends and I work a lot.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

And I was like, am I young?

SPEAKER_00 12:36

And I was, I don't actually remember everything, but it was it went fast. We got in the car, I started bawling my eyes out again. My husband's like, we're gonna go to work. Can I leave you? Or no? And are you gonna be okay? And I was like, I'll choose to get over this in two minutes. Just give me two minutes of crying. I'm just gonna call my bestie, who's the one living with me. She's at home on Matt Lee. She had a four-week old. She's at home. She gets on the FaceTime, she looks at me and thinks the worst.

SPEAKER_04 13:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

And I'm like, yes, I can't do this. I can't, I can't possibly raise twins. I'm like, I'm so stretched right now. And like, she was the best Han Murrah. She's like, get the fuck. Can I swear? Yeah. Get the fuck over yourself. If anyone can do it, it's you. Yes. You are the one person I would have faith that can do this, and you deserve this life. You deserve these twins. You can do this. You can do hard things, Sean. And I was like, okay, cool. Wipe my face and that was it. Like that from that point, I just needed someone to back me. Yeah. And it couldn't be my husband. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

And I think it's okay. I think we all like when we find out we're having twins, the first thing that comes to mind is all the logistics, and how am I going to do this? And we need to figure out then you have like, I think 24 hours, and then you start seeing the light at the end. You have two minutes.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

24 hours.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Yeah. The logistics overpower first, and that's the process my brain operated in before I could actually digest this change.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

So I struggled to believe in myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

But I am the person I am today because I've conquered something and I'm so proud of it. And I'm so I I think I'm so good at it.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

That's me. But yeah, it doesn't come without that initial doubt and that fear and that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Were you also like you've just had a previously like high risk pregnancy and then twins are high risk again? Like, how is that for you? Like that's got to be scary to go into another pregnancy that is high risk. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

My OB didn't say in certain that it won't happen again, but it is very unlikely to have a threatened miscarriage pregnancy again.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

And that is in a nutshell, your body's trying to pass the baby, but not everything is happening. Your cervix isn't opening, you're not going into labor. But if you live in a high stress way, you don't stay on bed rest, you do heavy lifting, anything can start it, but you're just waiting to see if it happens.

SPEAKER_04 15:10

That's terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

So stay stay still and stay calm and really rest.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

And how how early on did this conversation happen?

SPEAKER_00 15:20

14 weeks. Okay. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

Was it signs of something?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

So it happens because you start going into a bleed out. And when they're looking at it, it's showing all the signs of a miscarriage. So they send you home to rest for a day or two to see what happens and then keep your legs up, say flat, and then come back and we'll see if there's a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

Oh my god. Was that the longest 48 hours?

SPEAKER_00 15:48

And it was repeating history for me because I had done that with the third pregnancy. And you become, you detach yourself from the pregnancy because you protect yourself from feeling lost. So I live in this weird bubble of feeling grateful, feeling guilty, feeling unhappy. Feel like you're just up and down and a mess and you don't know how to explain it. No one can help you. You don't even want to talk about it because it means you have to worry about someone else feeling sorry for you.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

And you just live this dark hole for a while and then things progress and you get to another week, you get to another week, but it's not until you hit that week of if baby comes, they might survive it now.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

So for 30 weeks or 27 weeks, you're sitting there really struggling to enjoy the pregnancy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:40

It must completely shift how you experience the rest of your pregnancy.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah, I shared every week's bump update with the first two. I didn't talk about the third pregnancy until 31 weeks. I announced I was pregnant, but they also come early because your amyiotic sac weakens from the hemorrhage. Or yeah, and um he came at 35 weeks. So I had a four-week online pregnancy versus my first two was every weekly bump I was doing bump updates. So that he came at 35 weeks, he was fine. The twins I needed them to stay in as long as possible, but the risk of them coming earlier was higher. Everything's just doubled. Yeah. So appointments doubled, the risk of everything was higher. And then I had three kids this time to look after.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

And you say you're on like rest, you're supposed to rest this whole time.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Like and post that I'm exercising, posts to encourage women to stay healthy and keep my team going and support my husband who's now taking more of a load. Yeah. But also trying to be my support because we don't, I don't have a support outside of him. Yeah. Ghost has a lot on your plate. It's it really brings out inner strength that you don't believe you have. And it does the silver lining is it does make you a person that's capable of a lot more.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

And challenges and setbacks are the things that build character. And they have certainly proven that time and time again. And yeah, the journey was hard, but anything worth having is not easy. And it makes you appreciate what you have so much more. I'm so appreciative because I know how hard it we fought to get to where we are today.

SPEAKER_04 18:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

With the kids. And so yeah, the pregnancy came. Pregnancy came early at 30 weeks and six days. I was sitting on the couch and I felt it. I felt the gush and ran to the bathroom downstairs. My husband was upstairs showering all the kids, and it's quite loud and echoey when he's doing all of them. I felt the gush, I saw it, and tried to yell out to him. But as soon as I'd yell, more would come. And I'm trying to get his attention, but you can't move. I'm standing with my legs crossed and holding and eventually got his attention. I said, I'm bleeding, let's go. So he just scooped the kids up, chucked whatever on them. We ran to drove to the OB. He was the shop was closed or the clinic was closed. He got there just as we arrived. He checked, he said, It's happening again, but you have made it to 30 weeks. Okay, we're going to send you in an ambulance now, Sam. What can you do with these children? Because if you are not there in 30 minutes, you might miss this. And so Sam You don't have family around.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

Oh, what do you do in that situation?

SPEAKER_00 19:30

So he drove to my best friend's parents' house, which they live together, dropped all three there, and he's just said, I'm sorry, I've got to go. And then drove to the city, met me in there, and um we just monitored me and kept me up, and they just kept monitoring how much blood was coming out through the pads. And gosh, I was in labor. I could feel it, but I was in denial that they were coming. I didn't want to see babies this early. I was so afraid of what I was gonna see and what was gonna happen and what was the outcome of their development. And I don't know what I was thinking. I'm like, I'm good, I'm fine. They're like, you're contracting right now, you're not. My gosh. I didn't want them to come, and I kept arguing, just keep me anywhere, put me under, do what you need to keep them in me even one more week. Like, yeah, what can you do? You've got this, you've got everything medically available, right? Yeah, but it's not the case in this scenario. So that was traumatic, and that was really frustrating that I couldn't control something.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

So they took me in. We could have had them on separate days because it was almost midnight at that point. They're like prep preparing you to have babies on separate days. Is that okay? I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Whatever gets them here safely. I don't care. And if that's what you're thinking about at that point.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

They came out at 31 weeks because it happened after midnight. Oh wow. The team were there, they were incredible. They my OB was phenomenal. There were so many people in this room. I hadn't experienced a Caesarean experience like this. The first three were Caesareans, but there was that many people for each child. Yes. And when he pulled the babies out and showed me, I don't know, it was a blur, they were tiny, but they looked like babies. Yeah. And I was a bit of a relief, yeah, r relief to breathe and just think, okay, there's arms. I don't know what I was thinking. You're so blurred and stressed. And then there's poor Sam sitting there watching me get upset and crying as as if as everything's happening. And he's like, okay, what do I do? And I'm like, follow the children. Yeah. Follow one. Yeah. Follow the worst.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

So I imagine you didn't, you just got to see them really briefly and then not even in part.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Wrap them up in bags and and off they go. And I just said, find out which one's the worst and follow that one.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

Yeah. And then having to choose choose the child.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

So one child's with no one, he's left his wife. Doesn't know what's happening to his other three kids at this point, but obviously someone's with them. It's so crazy. Our life is so messy and it's organized chaos, right? Yeah. Yeah. Because we've got a brilliant team, we've got private care. It's like so much is good, and then so much is just a mess.

SPEAKER_04 22:14

At 14 weeks is when you found out there was risk attached to your pregnancy. Had you planned to have a C-section, or were you looking to do a vaginal birth? Had you gone in always with the idea it would be a C-section?

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Always C, yeah. I tried naturally with my first and got stuck. And I've got a post, they were always posterior and I've got a tilted, anterior-tilted pelvis. It makes it, believe it or not, this big frame cannot get a baby out safely. So after that experience, we decided cesareans from that point forward. But to be honest, vaginal births scare me more than a cesarean. Some re reason cesareans don't seem as hardcore as pushing a baby out your vagina.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Well, Gabby's Gabby's done both. I truly enjoyed my Caesar recovery. And I think I knew the difference because I'd had the different experience, and my recovery from that was so easy. I just got up and, you know, had a baby.

SPEAKER_04 23:17

Everyone's experience is so different. Some people prefer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Or the other. My yeah, I've got people in my in my life that are the opposite to me. Yeah. And I think you're a warrior. You push your baby and grabbed your baby. Yeah. Warrior.

SPEAKER_04 23:33

Push two out. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Some people push two out thus.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Yeah, so that was a cesarean birth, but I didn't even consider a NICU experience. Didn't even know what to expect. And to be honest, I was so naive to think that having a baby and the days after in hospital and going home is the hardest thing in the world.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

Can you walk us through those early days? My twins didn't end up in the NICU, so I I don't know too much about it personally. So can you take us through what those first few days in the NICKU look like? What happens the day of the birth?

SPEAKER_00 24:08

And so because the experience that I had had were normal cesareans, babies on your chest. You go into the recovery, into the recovery room and you're talking to the nurses. Yeah. Really chuffed with what your what your body's just done and who you're holding, and they're asking you to see if the baby will ta attach to the nipple. And it's a beautiful, yeah, fun you and the baby moment. Then you get into your room and you spend what I call like a hotel moment with your baby for three or four days. I had these babies and was reeled into the recovery room and had no husband, no children. So didn't know what's going on, no news. And I'm not important at this point. I'm not getting the news to me is not the priority right this at this moment. Yeah. I don't even know where my husband would be and he wouldn't know where I am. And so I'm in this room and I just feel really empty. It's actually really depressing. Yeah. Makes me sad.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Makes me sad.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

You're gonna make me cry.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

And I didn't even think about these points in your journey and like what you take for granted. Just having like a healthy baby. Of course. And so talking to these nurses, trying to be a people pleaser and just say, I'm fine, yeah. Like babies looked great when they came out, husbands with them. How lucky am I? I have a husband, and you just feel so out of body. And you've got someone's taking these children, and you're just this product now. Anyways, and then you go into your recovery room, you're still waiting for your husband, you don't know what's going on, and there's no bed for the baby in your room. It's just a room.

SPEAKER_04 25:59

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:01

I never thought about that.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Sorry. Are you all right? And you're just sitting there waiting. Is someone gonna come check in and tell me what's going on instead of just a nurse making sure that I'm so you haven't had any updates at this time? No update, yeah. And then actually I'll lie. From that point, sorry, they wheel you out of the recovery room. And then my husband came, sorry, after the recovery room, he comes in and they say we're gonna go take you to see your babies, but you're in your bed. So they're taking you to see your babies, but you can't do much because you're stuck in your bed and they're covered.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

And you don't know what you're really looking at. And then they have to get you out straight away anyway. So it's the first point of contact after the birth, and then you get put into your room, and there's no beds in your room for the children, and you're just laying there and it's really empty and you can't move because you've just had a cesarean and and you you've got a catheter, and yeah, it's out of body, it's unpleasant, it's depressing, and at the same time, you feel guilty because your babies are in the best care and they're alive, and you just don't know how to feel like how to feel. But you're a mum, so you can't feel sorry for yourself. And that's the stupidest mindset, but that's what my mindset was.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

It's probably just like a way to stay brave and get through such a hard, incredibly hard time. It must have been spiraling as well. Like just thinking, were you thinking I've just gotten my stomach?

SPEAKER_00 27:25

My babies are covered. I couldn't see their face. Yeah, that would have been And that's on me that they came out early. Like that, that's the mindset you have as a parent is what did I do and what could I have done better?

SPEAKER_03 27:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Um, and then guilty because I haven't even thought about my other three. Have they eight? Where are they sleeping tonight?

SPEAKER_01 27:43

It's all happened so quickly as well. So you've just actually gone into like what a whirlwind of a day.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Yeah, you got no control of those two. Your first two where you just kind of book a date and turn up, kind of thing for a C-section.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

It's very different. Hey.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Did your third have any time in special care with or anything?

SPEAKER_00 27:59

So So I wasn't prepared for my high-risk pregnancy. Started off scary, but he was born at six pounds, which is a great size. Yeah. He didn't need any help. He latched, he was a little spring chicken. He was so help so healthy, so beautiful and operating fine. So I didn't have any of this.

SPEAKER_04 28:21

So when there was a scare around 14 weeks, did your OB kind of prep you that there might be NICU time? Like had you gone through the rest of the pregnancy thinking there was a high chance they were going to end up in NICU, or were you quite confident that were we hope, hopefully that you were gonna make it to say 35, 37 weeks?

SPEAKER_00 28:39

He did talk about potentially having them in special care if they came early. But I do believe what I was told was the best scenario, case scenario to protect me from feeling stressed because I needed to stay calm calm. So the less I know, the better. And I do believe that they operate that way to get the best outcome out of their patient. And when you're in the emergency situation where they're coming, they're not prepping you for anything other than what's happening with this pregnancy and this these babies right now, not anything more.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

But when I got into my room and it was empty, and I'm sitting there trying to gather myself and I can't do anything, you feel really useless and helpless. And I kept asking, how soon can I go down and touch the babies and see the babies? And they said, as soon as you can get up, shower, go to the bathroom and show us that you can do stand up on your own. And as soon as you can do that, you can go see them. So nine hours after I gave birth to them, I got them to take out the catheter and stand up. And from a cesarean, you feel like everything's gonna fall out. You feel like you can't extend your hips and do full extension of your torso. But when you are tested with the power of being a mum and wanting to see these little babies that you feel so detached from at this point, you can do remarkable things. And I stood up, showed them that I could sh go to the bathroom. I yeah, I that's incredible. Was like three pregnancies before, I spent 24 hours. I got a sponge bath because I was like, don't make me stand up. I remember fainting after standing up after one of the cesareans, and that was 24 hours later. But here I am, just on nine hours to see these babies. I was determined to get down there and tell them, like, I'm here, I'm so sorry. You know, what do you look like? I don't know what your face looks like yet. Yeah, and yeah, then I went and saw them and I would just spend as much time down there looking at them because you can't do much and you can't stroke a Premier baby because it actually their skin's so sensitive. You're not just you can only touch a Premier baby. Yes. So gentle strokes is not what they allow you to do. It's just touching a nice warm touch, and then the journey began.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Was it quite confronting to see them like that? Or you were just happy to see them?

SPEAKER_00 31:16

It's confronting, it's sad. It looks worse than it probably is because they're so tiny. In incubators, right?

SPEAKER_04 31:24

Incubators, cords and things.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

No clothes on them, so they look skinnier and not as soft and healthy, and then there's band-aids all over their heels, then you can see the blood spots through that. They've got tiny little cannulas, food tubes, CPAP, beeping. You get ri you get PTSD from the beeps. Yeah, I can imagine. And hearing them have apneas and spells. And well, that's normal. Yes, they had one already just before you came. Oh, yeah, you can't pick them up because they might have another spell, which means that that they might stop breathing again.

SPEAKER_04 32:01

And so, what was the main concern with them? Obviously, they've come early at 30, 30 plus six days, I think you said. So is it their lungs aren't fully developed? Is it primarily because they are here early? Were there any other risk associated?

SPEAKER_00 32:14

At that point, they were saying, congratulations, this we can't see anything at this point, but they do need to go in for a lot of scans and a lot of tests. But at this point, we can't see anything major. So congratulations, the babies are really healthy. Was that some relief to you? Yeah. Yeah, you hold on to anything, but you have to be mindful that it's not linear. Their journey won't be constant milestone wins. There will be three wins to one loss, two wins to one loss. And that's part of the journey. And prepare yourself for the milestones to be up and down.

SPEAKER_04 32:50

Yeah, I can I can I can't even begin to imagine like And twins one's doing great, one's not.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

But yeah, so we go into that experience, and I would highly recommend that you journal every day. How you I wouldn't remember that I stood up after nine hours if I didn't check my phone and write it down. And what things you were told you couldn't do to your kids and what they looked like. They were on their stomach, they keep them on their stomach to expand their diaphragm so that their lungs can grow and they can open their lungs up further. Whereas you don't put a baby on their stomach normally, but because they're attached to ECGs and everything, they're monitored so heavily, it's safe uh for them to be laying on their tummy.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Uh, they're things that I learned, and I just wrote everything down because it's a whole different language that you're now with. And as a parent, you feel like you've surrendered right this at this point to the healthcare system. And they were doing fantastic. They were doing incredible, and I was so grateful. And I just can't imagine what could have been. But then you get to the point where they're allowed to come out and you can put them on you, and that's a whole nother confronting situation because you have two nurses pulling cords around. You feel so uncomfortable holding this baby at the beginning. And when they're on you, it's you between all these cords and wires. And when they're laying there, it's you you can't kiss the baby. I had to have a mask on the whole time, disinfect me.

SPEAKER_04 34:18

It's so hard not to kiss your own baby.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yeah, and it's little bits like that, it just feels very hard for particular reasons.

SPEAKER_04 34:28

Do you remember um how long they'd been in the NICU before you were able to hold them for the first time?

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Off the top of my head, I think I was able to hold them after 24 hours or 48 hours.

SPEAKER_04 34:41

Must have been so special.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

But as you said, like complicated with the cords and And it was a little longer before I could hold two at once and do that twin hold.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

And that's such a special moment for twin parents to hold them both the very first time holding them both together.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

And you're I felt like my selfish needs needed to be needed to stop because wanting to hold them is so lovely. But when you take them out of their incubator and you play around with their positioning and put them on you, you can see how stressed their bodies get by watching the machines. So you're actually causing more work on their heart. So wanting to touch them and love them cannot that's all doesn't always work in their favor either. And yeah, that was difficult. And then the hallway is another thing, seeing all the journeys on the hallway. They have photos and milestones and how long some families have spent in there. And you really look at how hard others have had it. And I always am optimistic, even in the most challenging moments and times of my life. And I would look at this hallway every time I'd walk down it and think how lucky I am that I got to 31 weeks and how lucky I was that my children were 1400 grams. Yeah. Because there was a lot of babies under a kilo.

SPEAKER_03 35:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

And how lucky that my babies were so many things. They got each other when I had to leave the hospital that they were left together. They weren't technically alone. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, just little things like that. And when one would hit so many milestones more than the the the other, I was able to keep them together instead of moving that baby onto the next room as they graduate that room. I was very lucky in those, in that sense. And then the hardest part, there's a there's a harder part that came for me personally, and that was the day that I got discharged from the hospital, and then I wasn't under the same roof.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

Yeah. Yeah, that's like a whole journey in itself.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

And you don't realize how lucky you are to walk out of a hospital with a baby. But I was unable to walk to the car because where we are in the city, the parking is a little further away. So you sit at the front and you wait with all the other parents and their babies for your partner to come pick you up. And they're so happy and they've got their bassinet that they wheel them out the hospital bassinet, and then they obviously leave the bassinet there, and there's a worker that takes it. But I was just sitting there and just watching parents walk past with their children, and I felt so guilty getting sad and envious of what I was seeing, and like I felt like I was abandoning these kids. Not at all. But at the same time, my kids survived. Yeah. And again, healthy, good size, together. Like, come on, Sean, get over it. You can do it. And then I have other kids that need me.

SPEAKER_04 37:38

Well, thank you so much for being vulnerable with us. Like I can tell, like it was such a hard journey for you. And I think, you know, there's no shame in having those feelings. Any mother in your position would have felt those. I've literally got goosebumps. Like I can't even, I can't even begin to imagine what you've experienced. Like it's so hard.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

I want to share it because if you are going to go through something like this, it's nice to know that you're not alone in what you're feeling. I'm not saying you're not valid and any of those feelings aren't valid. They are 100% there to be felt and there to make you love your journey even more. But I didn't know any of this, and I didn't come across any stories like this. And I really wish I did. I wish I was prepared for it and I felt like I had someone and that I could connect with and share this journey with, but I didn't. And and so every day you'd go and visit, and the journey was 50-minute drive in. Oh wow. And then 50-minute drive back. How how long were they actually in the NICU force? They were in total there for about five and a half weeks. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 38:45

So you guys would go in every single day?

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Yeah, and my husband would run the businesses and do the kids' school drop-off and daycare drop-off. And then he would drive me to the hospital so that I could see them. He would go off and go to work. So he'd had to minimize his hours at work by four hours. I think he would get like two hours and then he'd stay up late at night and finish off work. And eventually I was able to drive once I got to the clearance. But I would go in, he would only be able to grant me like two to two and a half hours at the hospital, and that's the only time that he would be able to leave me there for. So I would hold one for an hour and 10 minutes or an hour and 15 minutes, and then I would swap and hold the other for an hour and 15 minutes, and then I'd go home. The guilt on only parenting one child for an hour almost a day felt bad and felt hard and testing. But you sit in this room every day and you get to know the people around you in that room. You share that room with a lot of other babies, and you can't be sad about that hour that you only got with them because sadly you see children not survive.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

And you realize how lucky you are to have that hour. So stop winging and stop feeling sorry for yourself. You can do this. You can do hard things. And yeah, it was just a world when of your kids are graduating this room, we're going to the next room. Wait, well now they're coming back into the other room. They've had some um they've had some setbacks. Or you sit there and you go home and you fear your phone ringing, but they will only ring if something's wrong. They won't ring if something's good.

SPEAKER_04 40:21

Um did you just have to pause every time you went to pick up the phone? Like just take a deep breath, prepare for the worst, or were you because your mindset sounds like you were very positive. So did that help in this situation?

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Like it's positive with a lot of random negative moments. Yes. You feel like a mess. Yeah. And yeah, the phone call coming through, that was something that I was on edge about and anxious about. Anyways, you get through it and you do learn a lot about yourself. You journal a lot of things, you become a stronger mom, a more passionate mom, a more patient woman for yourself, not so much for your kids, it's more yourself that you can't do it all. You don't have to, you don't have to compare yourself to others because it it actually will destroy you as a parent. You do what you can do and you understand that this is life happening for you. So you get through it, the children eventually graduate and you walk out and you get your moment.

SPEAKER_04 41:14

Were they both able to come home at the same time? Same time. Oh amazing. That makes it a bit easier too.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Yes, and they came home just on six weeks. Oh, great. And we were anxious, we were worried because they're still gonna have apneas and spells, and we might be distracted with the other children, we might be asleep. So we kept little Owlat socks on them when we could, and that's the next part. That's the next part is taking them home and knowing that they're not normal children. They're gonna have they're they're still monitored kids, and you go from having them on ECGs 24-7 and then they take them off and give them to you.

SPEAKER_04 41:52

So you take them home. And how long's that for? Like how do so so you kind of graduate from the hospital, but do you still need to come back for like constant hospital visits or they have their own outpatient appointments.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

The other part was one of the tests that I had to do. Uh, you film the children for a period of minutes and they then slow it down and they monitor that video and check for any signs of movement. And it can tell them in advance whether that child has cerebral pausy, which is a common thing for premature babies. And they said they found it in my daughter in legs and arms. So her outpatient appointments were quite high, but they also would test my son at the same time with the exercises and the therapy, just because they're twins, and he would come anywhere she would go. So that was a very big scare and a lot of guilt, and like, I don't know, did I do something wrong? Could I have done something better? Like, what's her quality of life gonna be? And you really sit in that for a while, and that was a year of a lot of tests and a lot of appointments. And as a personal trainer, any exercise I was asked to do at home, I did it times three and massaged every limb, every muscle, and stretched every joint and done copious amounts of tummy time, everything I could have possibly done. Thankfully, she didn't have it after a year of being told she had it and being on NDIS. We eventually got into the NDIS, and it was only not even weeks later, where we got the clearance from the children's hospital that she, in fact, doesn't have it. And maybe the things that they were seeing was what I was what I was saying, which was that hummies aren't mature, the fist holding and the stiffness is the uncomfortable digestion that they're experiencing.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

And mother's intuition is always around. Were you able to like, do you feel like you enjoyed that time when they came home, or it was just riddled with anxiety?

unknown 43:54

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

It's kind of like a bit of vote, like it's so grateful that they can't.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

I think I like them enough. Hospital.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Because I feared that I would not see something happen. But then I enjoyed having my family under one roof. Yeah. I don't think I can answer that. I don't know. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 44:12

If we go back to your NICU experience, was there any unexpected positives you you gained from that season?

SPEAKER_00 44:17

I gained a whole different outlook and respect for parenting, for frontline workers, for what other parents go through just to have a child. And I have empathy in life for everything, but I didn't have any understanding. And that changes the whole way you feel about a situation when you go through it and you get that life blessing to experience something, even if it is hard. But it was a positive experience because we have healthy babies. And without a system like we have here, I wouldn't have the outcome that I have today. But it doesn't mean that it was enjoyable. It was really hard. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:03

We we hear a lot in NICU that um the babies are put on a pretty like structured schedule. Is that the case?

SPEAKER_00 45:11

This is actually positive. Yeah. They are routined bothers. Yeah. We love a routine over here. When you have two, the best advice I was given was keep them on the same schedule. If one wakes up, unfortunately the other one's waking up. If one needs to have a shower because they sput all over themselves and that's the shower for the day, shower the other one. Yeah. And do everything together, tummy time together, everything. And as a parent of multiples, it will save your mental load a lot. Trying to figure out what you need to do and when one's due and when's one when one isn't due. So they came home and they were on three and a half to four hourly feeds. They were on a pretty comfortable sleep routine where they could sleep in bright daylight with someone prodding them, with someone moving, shuffling with beeping sounds. So they could sleep anywhere. I used to put them on the top of my bench. I have a staggered bench and there's a high bar part, and I would put them up there. So my little ones couldn't touch them. But they would sleep in the bright light downstairs so I could see them because I was so paranoid if they were in a room and I had a door shut. And that worked in my favour because my anxiety was able to be supported by having them around me. I could parent the other kids and I didn't have to shush my children and make life difficult for them. And these babies just slept anywhere and everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 46:41

Well, that's what I was gonna ask. I didn't have any kids prior to the twins, and I held that schedule. I was so strict with the schedule. But having three little ones as well, how are you able to maintain the schedule? Is it do you think all the beeping and that them being used to their surrounds in the NICKU really helped you know, having toddlers and young children running around?

SPEAKER_00 46:59

It did. And they had so many outpatient appointments that I couldn't have them sleeping in a routine where they needed to be in a cot.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

They had to be out of sleep on the drive to the hospital. They had to be out of um, yeah, I I couldn't work around nap time. Yeah because when you get that appointment, you don't get an option of appointments. Yeah. It's this is what we have available. I'll see you then.

unknown 47:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

And yeah, and I had to do all the appointments on my own because my husband has to run the show. So I had to do the getting them out of the car together. Oh my gosh. Uh if one needed had a poo explosion, like getting both of them into that bathroom together. You become very witty in how you do things.

SPEAKER_04 47:42

Yeah, and I feel like if you had to do that very early on, it's probably a bit of a blessing in disguise, like doing it by yourself. Like it makes you a lot more confident further along in your journey if you like hold off, like I held off. I was quite nervous to do things out my husband, and I kind of kicked myself and wish I like just, you know, went for it at the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Yeah. And yeah, see, I didn't have a choice. Yeah, exactly. I just had to do it. And I still remember this one day I had to go to the shopping centre with all five on my own. My husband was somewhere, and I had to do it because they the three older boys were in someone's bridal party, and that's someone's wedding. Yeah. Like, I can do hard things. I'm not going to be the problem. So I was like, no, Rose, we'll meet you at the shopping centre for the the try-on. And I had a moon boot because I just broke my foot.

SPEAKER_04 48:28

Oh, another layer.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

And I had this twin pram. I had the twins in the bassinet swaddled together because they could fit. I had the one-year-old on the top. That's a cuter stage when they can both fit in the bassinet. And then I had the two older ones who were four and three walking with me and waddling with me. And I took them to Carendell down in Brisbane Westfield Shopping Centre and got everything I needed done, done. I told them when I needed to get to the cafe to do the feed, and could someone please feed the other one why I do it. Otherwise, I could get my son to help me. Yeah. Um, but normally he would help me on the floor. But we're in a shopping centre, so I just they need to be held. There's no floor, and we got it done.

SPEAKER_04 49:09

And I don't think people that have that don't have twins realise how huge a feat it is to go to the shopping centre with twins and yeah, particularly older kids after other kids. Like that's huge.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

So good on you. I was so proud of myself. I actually felt so confident after that trip and I needed that trip. Yes. To show you that you can do it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:29

And then and when you know, sometimes your outings don't go to plan, and you you just got to keep going because it just gets easier each time. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

More confidence you build.

SPEAKER_04 49:38

So you've spoken openly about choosing not to breastfeed the twins. Can you share how you you made that decision?

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Yeah. Logistic brain came into play, and I backstory, I breastfed the first three, and I was very grateful to have a very beautiful experience with breastfeeding. It's been something that's naturally happened. And I knew that I could breastfeed these two babies, but logistically, how was that going to work? And how was my mental health going to cope? And what did that mean for my other children? Yeah. I needed to keep these children on schedule. I needed to make sure that the one hour and 15 minutes I could spend with each child in the NICU that I didn't sacrifice that time. And the short period that I had with my other children at home, that I was present with them too. And the patch of time I had to sleep to try work on my central nervous system that I had that time too, so I could show up and be present properly. And I thought there's no way that breastfeeding is going to benefit the babies to the degree that if I don't benefit, uh that if I don't breastfeed, that I can show up for them. And I had to weigh that out and trust my mummy instincts. Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 50:57

Big believer of that believer.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Babies in the NICU have been given formula and they have been fine. I've got to trust this healthcare system that we will be, they will be fine. And I got pushback. I got pushback from nurses.

SPEAKER_04 51:12

The nurses can be very opinionated when it comes to breastfeeding.

SPEAKER_00 51:16

I understand. But I also, I was so confident in my decision because they weren't living my life. They didn't know what I had and the responsibilities of everything that I managed. And that's what I would advise. If you are strong on your decision that this is what's going to work for your family, who is anyone to judge you on your decision? No one books a personal training session with me, buys a program off me, or gets my husband to write meal plans for them and says, before I do, I know you're on my inspo, but were you vaginally birthed and were you breastfed? Because I just need to make sure that that's the case. Seriously. Like when has anyone ever been around? Does it not matter? No. And I'd already conquered the opinions of being a cesarean parent by choice. And I was still a parent, even if they came through the rooftop or the bottom. So I, yeah, I thought, how other how many other women have had this comment made to them or there's a conversation had by a healthcare professional and made them feel inadequate or less than as a parent for choosing to feed their baby formula. And I was walking in with frozen nappies on my breasts while I'm having this conversation and they're looking at me, going, You clearly can breastfeed. I'm so engorged. I'm like, sorry, I took the tablet, I'm done. Yeah. I'm not breastfeeding this baby. And that's your choice to make. You will always have food here for them. I don't want to add that stress that I've need I need to race to this hospital because you're running out of my milk. Yeah. That's just yeah. I'm happy to buy breast milk or give them formula, but I just don't want to put that into the mix of things now.

SPEAKER_04 52:56

It's such an important conversation to have that that we're having now because especially for twin parents or parents of multiples, there is so much pressure, like societal pressure to breastfeed. And feeding twins is no easy feed. It's all like a logistical nightmare, whether it is breastfeeding, triple feeding, pumping, formula feeding. It's a lot of work. And I'm the biggest advocate for Fed is best. Like I'm like you said, we don't know if Bob down the road is breastfed, you know, or formula fed. We don't know. It doesn't, it it really look, I'm sure medically there's you know, people might disagree with me, but I think it's the mother's mental health is so important because you need to be caring and keeping these two babies alive. Plus three other children, plus running multiple businesses. Like you gotta, yeah, I think that was a smart decision. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Make the call that works best for your family and don't let anybody add that judgment onto you. They will. You can choose how you respond and what you absorb. You cannot choose what that what they say. Yeah. But yeah, control what you can. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

And I think one of the nice things with multiples, it's something I learned as well, is that you actually do stop caring what other people think. Because, like you said, you haven't lived my life. You're not, you don't have two babies right now. So until like, and some might, but you know, overall, you don't know my everyday, and like that's it.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Your circumstances are so different to my circumstances, and I love that because it makes us different, it makes us who we are. So keep your opinions to yourself. Exactly. Well said. But yeah, another bit of advice is when people do throw judgment, be respectful and say, thank you. Like, okay, I appreciate that. Don't let them add any more heavy emotion onto you. You having a conversation with someone who has a strong opinion is like drinking poison and hoping that you won't get a bad reaction. It's insanity. Just let them be then they're living life for the first time, and you're doing yours, and you're doing it very well. So thank you. You can put on that performative answer and then just move forward and be like, huh.

SPEAKER_04 55:02

Yeah. And if you're expecting twin parents or you've just had twins, you're gonna get a bunch of opinions heading your way because common people have a lot to say.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

Yeah. And can I just say, not that this is the case, this is the reason why this is the case, but my twins are the healthiest babies, and they're the only ones in my family that don't have allergies, that didn't have interesting reactions to foods. They don't have eczema, they don't have any of the things my other three did that were all breastfed, solely breastfed.

SPEAKER_04 55:38

That's so interesting. I wonder if there's any correlation. Who knows? But it's just again, people do not ask me. I think that'll be very helpful for some of our listeners to hear because I feel like there's a lot of people that are tossing up which direction to go when it comes to feeding multiples.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

Whatever is right.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

I agree. Your baby's mental health and stress levels are what you will be punished with if they're bad. Yeah. And that's based on your energy. Yeah. So don't stress yourself out because babies can't communicate. They can only feel energy.

SPEAKER_03 56:12

Yeah. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

And if you can show up in a really calm nature, you can make anyone in the room feel that too. And that's your child who you spend 100% of the time with.

SPEAKER_01 56:21

Yeah, that's 100% more important.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:25

Um, you shared with us off mic that your twins had a scary reaction after their vaccinations. Uh, can you tell us what happened and how you navigated that experience? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

So this is a vaccine talk. And at the time that my children were born, and also due for their six-week needles, it was a very vaccine-sensitive time with the spicy cough and everything going around. Yes. People were very pro-vaccines, and the healthcare system were the worst. And I felt in my head the calculations weren't adding up. When I give my other children Panadol, Neurofin, I'm looking at the weight and I'm looking at the age before I give them the dosage. There's a measurement for the size of the child and also the age, whichever one comes first. And when you're giving a six-week vaccine, I get it. You're giving a six-week old size baby a product and a measurement based on the size of and age of that baby. My logistical brain was that the math is mapping. So you're giving my six-week old, not corrected babies, a six-week corrected babies dosage.

SPEAKER_04 57:49

I've never thought about it that way before.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

Yeah. How's that gonna work? How's their body gonna cope when they're technically not even a full-term baby yet? They're not even born yet. They were technically 37 weeks and they were twins, so they're smaller than a singleton baby, regardless of whether they're full-term or not. That's not my thing. So should I wait till they're six weeks, six weeks corrected? And I spoke to numerous doctors that they were visited by and looked after by in the NICU in special care. I spoke to the nurses as well and doctors there. And then my GP, I spoke to them as well. No one gave me the that makes sense. Yes, I think you should wait answer, not one person. It was the same robotic answer from every single person. And I felt like this the health system has not failed me. They have been fantastic. I I don't know this area. I need to trust. I've asked every single person that I possibly could, spoken to my husband, and we both felt so unaware of we didn't know. We had no idea. We felt so lost in this decision. So we went ahead and we got it done. And they looked fine. And we went home, they looked fine, they went to bed. They had a little bit of a spell or apnea, but we were like, only one did, that's fine. It's they do warn you that there's a few symptoms. Yeah, yeah. And they were still having them here and there, and we're like, okay, didn't think anything of it. And then the next day went to work. I made a nursery in my office, and so they would stay and sleep in my office. I would feed them, put them back down to bed, keep working, had my r my PA in my office, and my husband and his team were upstairs. Anyways, my husband was on the forklift doing some things in the warehouse, and he popped his hand head in to have a look at the kids as he normally would. I was feeding the boy, and my daughter was behind me, and he popped his head over the bassinet and saw that she was she's a darker baby, and she was purple. Oh my god. And he took her out of her swaddle, picked her up, and everything just went flop.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:02

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

Like she went limb. There was nothing, it was like you're picking up a doll or a teddy.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:08

I can't even imagine what was going through.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:10

I hadn't seen it yet. I I kind of heard what I wasn't paying attention. I was trying to quickly get this feed done so that I could feed her.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:18

Was he just calling out for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Like he was next to me because she's here. Yeah, right. I'm here with this other baby. Yeah. And he's just walked there and I could hear him doing something, but I'm still feeding, ignoring whatever. Then he walks next to me. He's like, Shawnee, she's not breathing. And it's almost like he couldn't touch her. And I was like, and I quickly put um the boy, because I would have these little beds that they would just like sit on after I'd feed the next one, and I'd just yeah. So I quickly put him on there, and it was almost like I just got her in time off him. Like he kind of just like gave her to me really like loosely, and I grabbed her and I could see he was just in complete shock. It's like he went into that is it fight and flight? Yeah. He just stopped.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:08

Yeah. Probably taking time to like register what's even happening.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

And that's not him at all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:13

He's very much like we just never know how we're gonna react in these situations, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:17

Yeah, and in stressful times, Sam is normally the one that's like, I've got this. And step up. He's he's such a masculine, he's such a man. And he just almost like she just fell into my arms and I felt it. And I looked at his face, and I just quickly stood up and I turned, put my back towards him so he couldn't see, and I'm just sternum rubbing as hard as I could into her chest and putting her face under the aircon unit. And normally I could get a startle, but nothing was coming. So I quickly ran to the bathroom and I grabbed water and I'm just flicking it on her face and sternum rubbing. I'm trying to rip her clothes off her and nothing's happening. But as I ran out, I said, call the ambulance now. And then nothing, nothing was happening. So then I ripped her clothes off, put her on the coffee table. We have like a little couch and a coffee table in the warehouse and put her on the coffee table and started doing CPR. And um, as soon as the mouth blows came, she coughed and came back or moved and came back. I don't even remember. She just came back and I turned and my team were just standing there. I have a gym that was two complexes across. They had all run over to the gym. They had a DFib in their hand. They you can't use it on the baby, but they're all panicked to help. And then the ambulance came. Maybe I don't even know when I feel like they just came straight after. And I looked up and my husband was a mess. My team were crying. I felt bad for my PA. She was, she didn't know, she's holding my other kid, and she's just like, and Havana was just, she just woke up. And it's knowing how to do CPR and having that constant course that I take every year for the last 14 years that it just came naturally to get it done and do what you need to do. And that mum mode switched on. I don't remember seeing much or hearing much. I just did what you have to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:03

You literally saved her life.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:05

So many people would just freeze in that situation.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

Yeah. You found her. Yes. Well, team efforts. I could have been playing with my son for another minute.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:15

And every second without oxygen affects the baby and counts. The sad thing is I got into the ambulance and I explained everything as a need to ask questions. And she said, You're incredible because if anything happened, this would be labelled as cot death. As SIDS. Like SIDS. Right. And I said to Sam when I was hopping in the hospital, uh hopping in when I was hopping into the ambulance with her, I said to Sam, don't take your eyes off justice. Yeah. Watch him. But this is the vaccines. I knew exactly what was happening. Yeah, it's a coincidence or something. You watch him, he's gonna happen, it's gonna happen to him. They do everything the same. Those two did everything. Anything good and bad was always happening together. They're so in sync. And he was just like, you know, really un unhappy. He's very sad and unstable. And so he sat there and he just watched him. And it was only a few hours later that he had one of the biggest spells. Oh, Avenir's. I always forget. And he calls me. I'm in the children's hospital in the triage space or in the room, and they're running all these tests. And he calls me and he goes, Can you please tell them if they haven't been told they need to make room? We're on our way. We're in the exact same ambulance as you, the same people, same paramedics. We're on our way. I could hear the sirens and they had to pull over because he had another one in the ambulance and they had to pull over to to get him back again. They met us in the hospital. They ran spinal taps. I never would recommend a spinal tap. I know you need them for certain reasons, but my God, that is the most traumatizing experience to do a spinal tap on a little baby. And they needed to run everything because they're like they could have meningitis, they could have all the, and I'm saying they had their vaccines. Can you please listen to me? My babies had vaccines 24, not even 24 hours ago, they are reacting to their vaccinations. I know this, and no one listens to you. Everyone puts on this blinker like they can't hear the word vaccine. And after seeing how she responded to that spinal tap and all these needles and protein, and it was awful. When he came, I was like, don't you touch and check his temperature, but don't do a single thing to that child. Anything that's happening to her is happening to him because of the vaccines. This is why they're happening together. And I could not get in, I was so frustrated. Yeah. And so they didn't run any of those tests on him. They just did the ones that were in non invasive. We spent however long we spent in the hospital, and I put it straight up on social media. If you have NICU baby, if you have Premier babies, this is what has happened to us. Can someone please tell me if this is a situation that's a common occurrence because no one here is talking. The amount of people came into that came into my DMs that were registered nurses, doctors who came in under alias accounts, you can see they just set it up to say I would be stripped of my registration, but I'm going to tell you some information that's going to upset you. This is what's happened and it does happen. And they're not going to say anything. Don't ask the nurses to agree with you. Don't ask the doctors to answer you. They're not going to say anything and they didn't. It wasn't until the very end that one doctor when we were getting discharged said, it looks like it could have been from that, but you can't actually say so we can't actually say so. Nothing was written, nothing my GP felt terrible. She rung and did as much that she could and she was just so apologetic. She's like I'm so sorry. I know you voiced this I know you were so stressed about this. Yeah it just I'm like isn't it over? Yeah, I've been on a wild roller coaster already.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

I was like my daughter how long did they stay in hospital for that time?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:17

It was I don't even know was it just two nights, five nights I can't even remember the whole juggle of being traveling to the city again with the kids and blur. So they left the day they left the hospital they were taken off the ECG machines in the hospital and put on portable ones that we found online and bought and they never went anywhere with our ECG machines. It was this beeping this traumatic beeping that we just lived with. And if we didn't hear that beeping then we were on straight away and we've had some hospital visits from other situations and I tell you what it doesn't that beeping doesn't go away. No, no gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:58

What advice would you give to parents navigating complex medical decisions for premature babies and how they can advocate for themselves?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:04

It's how do you answer something when you can't do anything but surrender to the system and they do so well and they bring your babies on to they bring your babies into a really healthy state where they are now thriving. Yeah but then this happens. I actually don't know and that's where we need to keep speaking and keep talking about what has happened so that people are aware that there are situations like this. Otherwise if that woman didn't have say me didn't have the experience or the confidence to do what I did would I still have five children.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

Would I still have the twins? I need the medical system and I they they're fantastic. They're the reason my children are here. But there's also flaws in the system and all I can say is listen to what I have experienced and just be aware of what happened to me and hopefully that saves a child or that saves a parent from experiencing something worse.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:09

Do you mind me asking has this changed your views on vaccinations?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

No, because I think there's a place for things and the yeah it's it is just it wasn't the right time. It was common sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:23

Yeah being informed is such a powerful thing. Like I I never thought about that what you said earlier about them being premature and like you know the vaccination is made for a six week old baby not you know not you know not corrected kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

And if you don't vaccine your kids I don't even have an opinion. Yeah I don't have an opinion. Yeah I think you are the parent and you are doing the best that you can to advocate for your child and we just need to support each other and be o be comfortable to be vulnerable because if we're not then we're hiding these situations and we're preventing saving what we're here for our children to help our kids, help other kids be a voice. And so you live and breathe fitness how did you personally navigate returning to fitness after the twins or after all the kids it got harder every time I had more I will admit and the experience coming back from a bed rest high risk pregnancy meant I didn't come back with much muscle tone, much muscle memory my fitness and everything was a lot harder to come back from and I'm only comparing this to the first two pregnancies that I trained right up until three days before I had birth. It was very deflating debilitating you're going in exhausted and yeah it's a it's a journey in itself it's hard and I would have days where I would go in I had a moon boot. Yeah sorry I broke my foot I was so behind in content and I had to do a photo shoot six weeks postpartum this was the day before the vaccination the vaccinations and I had to do a running shot and however I landed it broke my metatarsal bone on my foot. You're like what hours could go wrong what hours is what hours is coming for me? So I had a moon boot and coming back to fitness was going to be a challenge. So low impact training was all I could do which is all you should do when you come back from training but 20 year old Sean after the first two came back to high intensity training that was fine because that was my body's condition. But you really should work your way into low impact strength training. Yeah. Foundation of that is phenomenal. So I went into that and I had to do it and it was great. It was like life was happening for me. Sean sit the F down focus on what you should be doing. And it was hard. I would have days where I would go in there and they would sit in their pram or in their bounces or in their capsules absolutely fine and I could get 20 minutes done or 30 minutes done. And there would be days when I'd get in and they would be tag teaming me and I would try to start a set one would be crying I'd feel like the worst mum ever because they should be at home and I shouldn't be at the gym and I'd go into the car and cry. I did nothing that day it took me so much to get to that gym and so much effort to set up the routine of just fed, just changed, just put them in the car, just got here, I've taken pre-workout and buzzing buzzing and now I'm using that energy to get worked up and I'm in the car crane and I'm just going to go home and I can't be mad at these innocent little humans.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:40

But it is a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:41

It is so hard for a twin mum to get out of the house and you know And I can't even be mad at my husband because he's doing way too much already and you just keep showing up and you'll get some good days, some hard days but you've done hard things. You don't stop just because it didn't work the first time.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:02

Yeah. So there's so much pressure to bounce back.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:05

What would you say to mums that are feeling that the pressure to bounce back is a physical appearance. It's not the internal the longevity the mental health that's where we need to flip our perception and our focus. We are bouncing back to feel confident so that we can handle the new chapter and the new challenges and that bounce back is more so a bounce forward. We are a whole different person. We're in a whole different season fitness is required life is unpredictable and the more you start to accept the unpredictability and understand that children make it even more unpredictable. Absolutely that what you can do is work on the things that you that keep you steady. So you need to focus on the things that keep you steady and the things that keep me steady are three pillars and that is movement that is routine and that is community or family. If you don't have the right people around you things are harder. If you don't have routine things are harder and if you don't have movement things are harder. So you need to show up for yourself to get that movement downpack. You need to work on being organized to get that routine and then you need to cut ties if people are not serving.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:19

And that's and it makes it makes you a better mum.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:22

Yeah. And it makes you stop thinking that you're being the selfish little brat that needs to get skinny or needs to bounce back and put pressure on your on your body it's actually more than that. You need to be strong to handle the new chapter of life.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:33

Yeah yeah I feel like that narrative is slowly changing which is a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:37

Obviously you've touched on it like you also run multiple businesses. How do you juggle it all?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:42

It's a juggle and it's a forever balance it's a balancing act. You feel like you're Superwoman one week you feel like everything's against you and what's going on with the moon and then you seriously it's always the moon. It's always the moon and I just keep thinking about the bow and arrow analogy when you feel the most suffocated when tension's at its worst and you feel like you're going to break they are the moments before launching forward. And life isn't linear weight loss isn't linear. Parenting Nikki life nothing's linear the more we accept it when that tension is pulling as hard as it can and you feel like you can't breathe hang in there a little bit longer because that's the moment when you normally project to the next level forward and then it will come back again and project you to the next level. And so yeah my best advice is just accept the pathway in how it operates.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:42

I love that so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:43

I love that feel so inspired. So to wrap up every episode we finish off with some rapid fire questions if you're ready. Yes. All right one thing twin motherhood forced you to let go of and one thing it gave you it made me let go of being a perfect parent.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:01

Yeah I love that. And it gave me uh it showed me that you can really expand your heart further.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:09

Yeah that's that is really beautiful. What's one piece of advice for a twin mum in the trenches right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:16

Lean into your village. It takes a village to raise these children. You're not designed to do it all children deserve more love. And if you let people in um you'll watch others fall in love with your family too and it's it's that's such a powerful message.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:32

So true. Yeah. And the last one is what's the hill you die on when it comes to raising multiples?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:38

That you have to follow through with your word. Yeah. Because one will see a crack. So if you discipline one based on what they did or you say no or you have a way of doing things, you have to keep to your word because your word means nothing if you don't follow through.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:57

That's a good advice I am I need to take that on myself. Chantel thank you so much for sharing your story with us today. Your honesty vulnerability vulnerability your insights as a mum of five is so inspiring. So we really appreciate you coming on.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:17

Thank you for letting me share my story and letting me reach other women to hopefully give a golden nugget but also to help another child.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:25

Yes I feel like so many mums listening today are going to feel so seen and understood especially those that are experiencing the NICU.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:32

Yes you can be strong you can be confident but you're also a human.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:36

That's right. On that note thank you so much. Thank you ladies that's a wrap for today on All at Once. We hope you laughed maybe cried a little and most importantly felt seen while navigating the chaos of raising multiples. We release new episodes every week. Subscribe to keep them coming. And if you want more in between you can find us on TikTok and Instagram sharing behind the scenes moments, practical tips and exclusive guest insights or watch the full episode on YouTube. It's messy, loud and beautiful life with multiples all at once.