Katie Bunton on Raising Twin Boys, Life Online & Alternative Parenting

In this episode of All At Once, we’re joined by twin mum, content creator and founder of Pipsqueak, Katie Bunton, who shares her experience of finding out she was pregnant with twins at 12 weeks following a miscarriage, and the realities of raising twin boys while building a business and online community.

From navigating the chaos of twin toddlerhood, to hiring an au pair for support, to turning social media into a full-time career during one of the most isolating seasons of motherhood — this is an honest conversation about parenting, identity, and creating a slower, more intentional way of living for their family.

We also talk about secondary infertility while trying to conceive baby number three after twins, multigenerational living, and the pressures that can come with motherhood and life online.

In this episode, we cover:

• Finding out she was pregnant with twins after miscarriage
• The realities of raising twin boys
• Navigating the toddler years with twins
• Hiring an au pair and alternative support systems
• Turning social media into a full-time career
• Motherhood and the isolation of early parenting
• Secondary infertility after twins
• Building a business while raising children
• Creating a slower, more intentional lifestyle
• Multigenerational living and modern parenting dynamics

If you’re raising multiples, navigating infertility, or trying to find a version of motherhood that works for your family — this episode will make you feel seen.

Follow along for the raw, unfiltered reality of raising multiples.

• Instagram: @allatonce_co
• TikTok: @allatonce__
• YouTube: @allatonce_co

Thanks for being here.

If this resonated, sharing, rating or leaving a comment helps more parents of multiples find us.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome to All at Ones, a podcast dedicated to raising multiples, because life with multiples deserves its own debate. Whether you're expecting twins already deep into chaos or simply curious about life with multiples, you're in the right place. Where Shane and Gabby, two mums with five kids between us, including two sets of twins, sharing honest, unfiltered stories about the highs, the lows, and everything in between. This is a safe space to laugh, cry, and feel understood all at once. Let's jump in. In today's episode, we sit down with twin mum, content creator and founder of Pipeline, Katie Bunton, and there is a lot to unpack. We talk about finding out she was having twins and twelve weeks after a miscarriage, the realities of raising twin boys, hiring a new pair during the chaos of toddlerhood, and how social media became both a creative outlet and a full-time career in one of the most isolating seasons of her life. Katie also opens up about her experience with secondary infertility while trying to conceive baby number three after twins. This episode gives a much deeper insight into alternative ways of living and parenting from pairs and multi-generational living to navigating motherhood, life online, and raising twins. Hi Katie, welcome to All at Once. Hello, ladies. Absolutely glowing. Congratulations. Thank you so much. For those who might not know you, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your family?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

So I'm Katie. I am currently pregnant, which you'll notice, so I'll just get that straight out of the way. Uh, with my third boy, and I also have four-year-old twin boys. They are going to be five in a couple of weeks, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

I can't believe they're almost five.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Yeah, I know. I can't believe it either. It feels like a really big birthday. It's just like they're proper big kids now. We live just outside of Baron Bay, and so yeah, we're just like living our best life. We do social media full-time now. And we just launched uh a business as well where we're selling stainless steel lunchboxes because we're like super into that kind of like low-tox living. So yeah, that's kind of like the cliff notes, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Amazing. Well, we can get into all of that. But if we go all the way back to the beginning, I guess what about your journey to falling pregnant with the twins? And when you found out it was twins, what was your reaction?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Oh, oh my God. So it was like a very, it was like a whirlwind situation for us because like Harry and I met in Toronto and we moved to Australia after knowing each other for only nine months. And it was already just felt like so much was happening, but it was like, you know, it felt like really romantic and exciting, and we had all these amazing plans. We were gonna move to Australia, we're gonna do all this traveling. And then, like, two months after I moved here, COVID hit, and it was like our plans were just wiped from the calendar. Like, I think we had like a trip to Greece got canceled. Like it was just like, oh my god, this is crazy. And then, you know, there was just probably too much like wine and charcuterie nights alone. Uh like deciding, deciding. You know, well, we have nothing else going on. Like, should we just have a baby? And that was an we weren't even engaged at the time, but it was just, you know, we were just in this mindset of I don't know. Anyway, and then I think we got pregnant literally the first time that we were like, do we do this? And then we're like, This is crazy, let's try. And then I I got pregnant really quickly, the very first time, but then I had a chemical miscarriage. So it was like one of those seven weakers where like you get the you get the positive pregnancy pregnancy test, and then by the time you get to the doctor's appointment, it's already kind of over, which at the time felt so awful, but in hindsight, it it obviously like was meant to be because three months later I got pregnant again and it was twins, and I was like, it just it felt weirdly like it was meant to be that way, you know? And so yeah, got pregnant really easily with the boys too. Like as soon as my body had healed from the miscarriage, it was like straight back in, tried again, pregnant, and we didn't find out it was twins until I was 12 weeks. Oh wow, did you have a dating scan? Or well, so because of the miscarriage, I chose not to do the dating scan because I didn't want to get like the last time I I guess I got my hopes up, and then the dating scan was like this really yucky day. And so when I got pregnant the second time, I just was like, you know what, I'm just gonna let my body do what it does, and we'll see how it goes. And if we get closer to 12 weeks, then we'll go and like get everything checked out and and get like you know, our hearts set on it. Yeah. So yeah, that was literally the reason we didn't go with the twins. And I wish I would have gone sooner. It was crazy. That was crazy finding out like that late in the game, too. Because we had already planned our like announcement for our family. We got like these like champagne bottles made with like, you know, these like um labels that said like baby Buntain, and then we're like, well, that's not gonna work. But it was kind of like a fun surprise. Obviously, our families were like freaking out. It was so funny. We don't have any twins in either of our families. Oh wow. Never knew that it was just the mom's genetics that mattered anyway at the time, but I just didn't even like think it was an option. I didn't even know anyone who had had twins.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

And there was no inkling at all. Did you feel any different? Not at all.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

I mean, it was the first time I was really pregnant, so I really didn't know what to expect in general, but I had no idea. Like, not even like I had no intuition about it, not at all. I was completely shocked. Do you remember being in the room?

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Do you remember like what unfolded?

SPEAKER_00 5:45

So it was funny because we had never did the dating scan, didn't go to the doctors. It's kind of crazy looking back now, but we just really avoided the whole like getting our hopes up thing because of the miscarriage. And then so we were like, we wanted to do the NIPT test. Yeah. And so when we booked the NIPT, they're like, well, you have to have an ultrasound because we have to confirm the gestation, or else the test is like obsolete or whatever. Right. So we were like, okay, fine. So we went into like literally the blood, like where they do the NIPT test in Sydney, and they were like, the um ultrasound tech was like, Oh, I very rarely do the first ultrasound. Like this almost never happens here. Because by the time people get to the NIPT, they've already had a dating scan. So they're like, she was like so excited. Like she was like, it's so fun for me. Like I rarely get to do the first ultrasound, and like it's so special. And they were like, Oh, that's great, cool, whatever. And then it was kind of like weird, a weird moment. Like, I don't know if this happened with you guys, but I mean, I couldn't see anything on the screen. I didn't understand what was happening. And she's doing her thing. And then I felt her pause. Like she was like, hmm. Like I could feel her kind of like, and that made me nervous. Like I was like, after what you just came through. Yeah, I was like, what? Like, what are you looking at? Do you know what I mean? Like I could feel her like reservation about telling us what she was saying. Like she was investigating further, which made me immediately nervous.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

And we were like, okay, and like kind of holding our breath. And then she just goes, Here's your baby. And it was like, you know, that quintessential ultrasound, the 12-week ultrasound with the little face and the top of the chest. And we were like, Oh my god, like, you know, and then she goes, and she was and she goes, and here's your other baby, and does pulls over and does the same face like on this side, and we were like, What? Like, completely like, what do you mean? Like, what are you talking about? And I just, I just remember like putting my hand over my face and just being like, and just both of us, like just we weren't even like looking at each other. And then she did the over the top thing, and you could literally see the both like beings next to each other, like moving their little sprouts. Beautiful. And we just both looked at each other, we burst it out laughing. We were like shot. Like shot. Like shuck laughed after that. And then we were just crying. I was crying. It was like, I think you go to the city. You go into like this like crazy. It was just like, what? And then just seeing them next to each other, I will never forget. I just started bawling my eyes and I was like, oh my god, this is like a miracle. Like I felt like I was like part of a miracle.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

It would actually be amazing to actually learn at 12 weeks because then you're seeing them like on my first one, they were just little dogs. Yeah, yeah. But you they're like two sacks or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Yeah, they were literally two babies, like they were like dancing. I saw the video. Yeah, we were just like a shocked. Like I remember, and so this ultrasound tech was like, this is the best day of my life. Like, I can't believe I got this ultra zone. And now it's twins. And then after, so we were just like in shock, but we were so happy. Like, not, you know, not even scared. Like, we were just like, This is a miracle, this is incredible, this is amazing. Yeah. And we got, we went out and then we had the conversation with like where they draw the blood, and the lady's like, Wow, like you didn't know you were having twins. And I was like, No, I had no idea. She goes, Have you been really sick? I was like, Yeah. She's like, Well, now you know why. Yeah. You just said you were pregnant, but it's your first, like, you know, pregnancy. I would have milked it more, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

I wish I would have known sooner. I love that. So, like, you've just found out you're pregnant with twins. Did it take you a while to kind of process that?

SPEAKER_00 9:35

I mean, I had to go back to work after. At the time, I was a personal trainer at a gym. Right. I did like group fitness and stuff. And I wasn't telling anyone. At that point, I hadn't told anybody that I worked with that I was even pregnant. I was really keeping it secret. Just because, like, it's like the fitness industry. I didn't know how they would take it. And I worked with all men. So I didn't have, I didn't feel that like safe space, I guess. Yeah. So I not that they would have been anything but like lovely. It's just that I they wouldn't get what I was going through anyway. So I was like, what's the point of telling them? That would have been hard being really sick though. Being a person trainer. So brutal. Like 5 a.m. Yay, keep going out there. And I'm like, get out. Get out. I need to go to the bathroom. Like, it was honestly the mental health of it all was the worst part. But I just remember like going back to work and just like cheesing, like just the whole day. I'm like, I had this like secret that I just like, oh my God, like this is happening. And just like said, like texting Harry, like, we need to go home. Like, I can't keep it in. Like, I'm gonna cow what? Yeah, I was like, I'm gonna explode. And then I started showing really quick after that. Yeah. So I didn't have much time left to keep it hidden, especially wearing like tight workout clothes every day.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Uh yeah, so I ended up telling hey work very soon after.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Did you find it? Because it was like your first pregnancy. There was any point where you grieved like the what motherhood you thought would look like as like a singleton pregnancy?

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Uh I were just so excited. You know, actually the first thing I grieved was birth birth. Because I knew I kind of knew quickly. I had I I've always been really interested in motherhood and birth, and like paid a lot of attention to friends and stuff. Like it was always something that interested me, and I was always really excited about it. So I kind of immediately knew, like, oh shit. Like I'm probably gonna have to have a C-section. Yeah. And I was not excited. Like I was very scared of the surgery. Like I had only been under general once before. Like, I know you don't go under general for stuff, but I just see surgery is very scary for me.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

It's like it's a major surgery.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

It's yeah, it's it's to me, it like I'm not one of those people who ever thought the C-section was an easy way out. Like I looked at that as a really big hill to climb. And I was scared about it. So that was like probably the first thing I was grieving was like my birth.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

And then the pregnancy just was harder and more like mentally taxing. I think, like, especially now that I've been pregnant with just a singleton, it's like a completely different kind of like the stakes just feel so high. And I know you guys know exactly what I mean. Like you're just genuinely scared all the time, and you feel like there's just so much at stake, and like, you know, it's just it is just mentally and emotionally really hard. Yeah, it's the entire knows it's physically hard, right? Everyone's looking at you like, oh God, you must be in so much pain. But actually, the harder part is I genuinely think the emotional and the mental anxiety that you just go through that whole time.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

And I think we've touched on before that not until they arrive that you're like, I can take that deep gray.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

I can like like, even last week, like this is crazy, and you guys will totally understand what I mean by this. Even last week, like I'm like, I said to Harry, I'm like, oh, I guess it's like 24 weeks. I guess it's viability week. Yeah. Like didn't even cross my mind. Whereas like I was like, wait, you know what I mean? You're like, you're like, oh, I've done this. And it's like in your mind, and you're just so grateful. Like every second you're like, thank God, like I can't believe it. And everything feels like such it was so hard to get there. Like you didn't know if you would get there. Whereas like you really take this for granted, yeah. Of how just like more, it just feels more like the calm of it all. Like it's so different. I'm like, oh yeah, I guess like you really don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

From like literally day dot. There's always such a negative like stigma to twin pregnancy that yeah, there's not many positive things you hear when you first jump on Google. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Oh, well, that's actually one of the reasons I started doing social media was because I I was like, I gotta get off Google. Oh yeah. And I found it way easier to talk to other moms on Instagram.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Like real moms. Because I found like the Google rabbit hole was like a very dark place. Yeah, it's a very dark place. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Um, if we change pace a little bit, we've got to talk about the gender reveal and finding out how the favorite.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

I just did one, so I'm like, oh my god, yeah, that famous gender reveal. Oh my god. You know, it's so funny. I I did I want I didn't want two boys at all. Like, which just sounds so bad now, but it was my third option. Yeah. Like you're like, oh, I get three options here. And I remember being like, wanting the girl boy like you guys. I think everyone's immediate thought would be like, oh, wouldn't it be just so perfect? And then we can maybe we don't even have to have more kids after. I wanted the girl boy, and then I was like, oh, but two girls would be so nice. Like I have two sisters. Like I just was like, oh, like sisters, like you know, it'll be so great. And then I was like, two boys would be friggin' nightmare. Like I truly was like, I love boys, like I want a son, but I was like, that will be hectic. Like, oh my god. Like I just was like, no, that will just be too crazy. And then of course, I got two boys. And I in that moment, I remember like even going into the gender reveal, like it was just Harry and I. We had the two balloons, and a friend of ours was there filming it. So it was just like us, but we filmed it. My parents are back in Canada. I was gonna send it to them and stuff. And I remember just like being so disappointed in my reaction, like, and just like, why did I react like that? But it was just my genuine reaction. I was kind of like, oh, like this is gonna be hard. Yeah, you know, and I was right. So there we go. I was right. You know, we I felt so bad at the time. I'm like, I should have actually reacted way worse. Now that I know what I know, I should have been way more upset. You scare all the moms listening. You know what? We deserve our flowers. Yeah. And so I'm like, I have so many boys, like twin boy moms like reach out to me. They're like, I am so glad that you acknowledge how insane this life's this life is. And and like, I'm like, yeah, like I will never ever sugarcoat how crazy it is having twin boys. It's like, my my sister-in-law has twin girls. And so they're younger. Yeah. And I'm like, really? Like, really, it's that different? Like, it's really that different.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

It really is.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Like, and you guys would see them like next to each other, like how different they are behavior-wise. My son is nuts. Like, and imagine cloning him and then them like having like bouncing off each other. It's like, it's wild.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Like, I'm like, okay, it's hard with one boy, and like time's a spy two. Like, it's not three props to you.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

And it's like, uh, you know, they're little violent creatures, they're crazy, and they're so like the daredevil, like it's honestly like I say now, I'm like, I have nerves of steel after five years of twin boys. Like, I'm just like, you can't even phase me. Like, nothing. Yeah. I remember like last year being at the farm in Byron, and I was sitting having a coffee with my friend, and my boys were like off, literally bashing each other with sticks, like fully, like, I don't know, what, whatever. And I was, it wasn't even phasing me. It was like, it was like I tuned them out, and I'm just drinking my coffee, chatting to my friend. And this mom who had a son with her, the same age, she was like, ran over to me, like, are these your kids? And I'm like, Yeah. I'm like, what is something wrong? She's like, they're really fighting over there. I'm like, they're getting along right now, actually. So can you have let me have this minute to myself? Let me enjoy my coffee.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

No, but honestly, I think it's a twin thing too, because I feel like not even just the boy thing. I think us twin moms are just so used to like the chaos and like them fighting or them being playing rope threshold. Like when my like singleton mom's around, they're like, oh, oh, okay, they're like, leave them, they're on the top of the bench, it's fine. They know what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Like, honestly, this is like so the thing, like you need twin mom friends because people judge you for sure. And you're like, it's different. Like, I need to break it to you, but it it just is. And like, if I'm gonna like try to step in every single time that they have a disagreement about something, I'm gonna be doing that all day. Like, my motto is like, let them sort it out, unless they're you know, and then one of them will start crying at some point, you know, it'll end in tears, and then we'll move on. You know what I mean? It's just like I can't spend my whole day. No, like my whole life would just be like work out, like mediating between them, like let them mediate between each other. But I will say, like, they are also so incredible with other kids because they have that outlet and that learning. I mean, I could go on and on about the like maturity of twins and like how they're able to share better. Like, it might seem like they're worse at these things, but because they have that interaction constantly, they are actually, I honestly think, so evolved because they have to learn that lesson over and over and over, which singleton kids don't necessarily have that level of like learning happening all the time. I love that perspective because yeah, you're like they actually are having to learn to share. Yeah, they're elite, is what I'm saying. Twins are elite.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

They are, and so are their moms. So, alongside raising twins, you've also built a life and career online. How did your social media journey begin? And did you ever think it was gonna become your own? Probably the same as all of us.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah. I okay, so I was pregnant with twins. It was COVID, I couldn't be near my family. I felt so isolated, and I think a lot of moms feel isolated in general, but twin moms, it's like a different level of isolation because you're even isolated from the moms. Like you're just like, they don't even understand what I'm going through. So it's like that next level of isolation. There's so many variables, it feels really scary, and you have no one to talk to but any of it. And so I started really outleting on Instagram. Like I remember just like instead of going on Google, I would search hashtags. Yeah. I would search like twin birth, like twin breastfeeding, tandem breastfeeding. And then I would just search the hashtag and then I would scroll through. And it literally was so impactful to like help me feel comfortable with like everything that was coming up. And then I would start like following twin moms on Instagram that were sh that were like open and sharing stuff. And I would reach out to them. I literally would just DM them, like just people like people do to me now. It's like I would just DM them and be like, hey, weird, sorry, like stranger here, like popping in. I'm like pregnant with twins. I'm really freaking out. Like, what stroller did you use? Like, I feel really overwhelmed with choosing that, or like just little stuff like this that you can't just ask anyone. And then I said to Harry, I said, There is like a real like need for this, and I'm gonna start doing it. Like, I'm gonna be that person that's like so open book that anyone feels like they can reach out to me or like comment or whatever, and I'm just gonna like show it all. Yeah, you know, because I feel like I need this so bad. And I know there's gotta be a ton of other people out there in my situation who also really need this. And also, I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. I did not want to go back to work at all. So, in that sense, I was like, and if I make a little bit of money for like cat, you know, like to go to coffee and like buy clothes now and then, like that'll be cool too. But it really was like, it wasn't in the beginning so business focused like it is now. It really was just like being like creative and like connecting and community. Like everything I used to post was like about being a twin mom. Like it was like the only thing that I posted in the beginning. Yeah. Um, and it was a lot of educational or like inspirational, like where I wanted to show like you can do this, like it's gonna be fine, you know. Because I feel like I needed that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

It would have helped so many moms. You actually want to like I jumped on TikTok when I found out I was pregnant with twins, and I feel like at that time there wasn't. That many mums sharing her journeys and you were actually one of the ones that I first found. I was trying to find mums that also were like a bit more that were real but positive, like not like the daunting. I was kind of like mid. Yeah, I feel like it was mid. But that's real. You need no one that's floating on clouds the whole time. Oh no, no.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

I was showing real life, but I was also not sad about being a mom. I wasn't bashing ever being a mom. I love, even on my worst days, like it's still the only thing that I want to do with my life. I never wanted it to feel like this is a place where I'm just like crying about being a mom. Like, and people come here and they get they feel worse after they see the content.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Exactly. And that's what I was trying to avoid is finding content creators where I'd go on their page and I'm like the same as Google.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Yeah, it's like. Yeah, it's like what are we doing here?

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

So I feel like you do a great job. Oh, I love that. Yes. I know. I've I've been following you for a while as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Oh, I feel awesome. I was saying just off mic before that like when I found out I was pregnant, someone else said to me, You have to follow Katie. And I was like, I found out. So, and yeah, no, I think.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Yes, and I do get I did now it's a little bit different because it's not so twin mom focused, but it's just more like you know, life the way it is. But at that time, like I remember like I'd meet twin moms all the time out in public, and they'd be like, You saved me. Like, which that was so special.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

It feels a bit parasocial at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, now it's weirder. Now it's almost weirder because it's like, oh, you know, like everything, really. Yeah. Like, what did I say today?

SPEAKER_02 23:28

You don't even need the iPad.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Yeah, I know, right? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

How was it juggling is trying to grow that your online presence and raising twins at the same time? Oh man, I think it's the most badass thing I've ever done.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Like, I cannot believe that I had the energy and time and like commitment to do that. Like, I just it blows me away, like looking back at how like committed I was. And I mean, I'm telling like you guys know what it's like. It's like I was in the trenches of motherhood and decided I'm gonna take a go at this. Like, what? And then basically take on another job. Yeah. And then it was just like you're exhausted, you get the kids in bed, and then I would spend the rest of the evening like editing. And like it was just like, and at the time, it was like people don't realize it's like you're doing it for free completely at the time. Like, I mean, you're growing your social media, you're not making any money. It's like a hobby at the to begin with. A hobby. And to have that level of commitment to something that's virtually you're not like making anything from, like it took a like it was a I can't believe that I committed that hard, like when I was in that stage of my life, but I loved it. Like I loved sharing that stuff. I loved creating content too. I always say this like when people use like the influencer term, I'm like, I'm like, I'm a content creator. Like I'm I might influence people or like inspire people, but I'm not an influencer. Like I'm a content creator, like a professional content creator. And it's always been about the content. Like it's never been about like just listen to me because I'm me. Yeah, yeah. Like it's always for me been like, I just want to make good content for people that they like get something out of, and like, or even if it's just entertainment for my kids being wild and it makes them feel better about like their like, you know, like like I've always tried to make the distinction, like I'm a content creator. Not that there's anything wrong with being an influencer, yeah, but I just do I do think there is a distinction. Definitely, and like we built our platforms from the ground up. Like we didn't go on a TV show and walk out with an audience and then say, We need to figure out how to like monetize our audience. It's like we built our platforms from the ground up where nobody's, we don't like you know what I mean. I had to am I. I all it was was like just making content that people connect with. Yeah, and like building it.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

And obviously everyone did connect with it because now you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Oh, well, luckily I never made that much money in the past. So it was like I wasn't competing with like some crazy amazing career. To be fair, I was never really a super career-oriented person. I always knew I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. So even I remember being in high school, you know, with the guidance counselor, and they're like trying to figure out where we're gonna apply to university. And I'm like, I'm not going to university. They're like, What? Why are you taking university level classes? And I'm like, Yeah, you're right. I should probably drop out of them. And then they're like, Okay, that's not where we're going. So I'm like, I just don't really, really like want to have a competitive, I want to be a stay-at-home mom when I'm older. And so why would I like invest in this career that's just gonna compete with that dream of mine? Like, I literally said that to my guidance counselor, and she was like, This is an insane conversation. It's like not insane at all, actually. But people you kind of felt that way. Our generation fully felt that way, I would say. And I just remember being like, Yeah, I just don't want anything, like I want to work, I always want to contribute. I want to, like, I'm a very like, like I'm a how do I say, like, I'm not like someone who didn't want to work. I just didn't want to have a career that was competitive with my dream of being a mom. Yeah. So I was like, I I was like, what's a good job that like I can be a mom and maybe do part-time, whatever. I ended up going to school to be a massage therapist because I could work for myself, make my own hours. Literally chose to go to school based on how I can be a good stay-at-home mom. And so that's like always been on my mind. So when I left fitness, I was like, this is my chance. Like, it'd see social media as my chance to never, literally never have to leave the house. So I was like, this is great. Yeah. And so I think it clicked uh that this could be a real thing. Oh my god, you're gonna die. I'm gonna give a shout out to this brand. It's called Catchy. Do you guys know it?

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Oh, yeah, like the high channel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have that?

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Okay. So I will say this. This is like very early in the whole like learning to like sell products, right? I remember this brand called Catchy reached out to me and they didn't want to pay me. They just wanted to do an affiliate program. Right. And I was just kind of like, I didn't understand it. Like I was like, affiliate marketing, like, I'd rather just you give me $200. Like, that's like where I was at mindset. I'm like, just give me like $200. But they didn't want to, they wanted to just send it to me and then sign me up to their affiliate program. And I was really just learning about it all. I was like, okay, send it to me. So they sent it to me, but again, they weren't paying me. So like it kind of sat there for a while and I didn't set it up. And I was a twin mom, I'm freaking busy. Like, and I didn't know understand affiliate marketing at all. I didn't get how lucrative it was. So I was like, never set it up. And then they out, they sent me a DM. They're like, look, we'll give you $200 to set it up, the $200 just to set it up. I was like, okay, fine. So I set it up. Because at that point, I was like, I need to start making money for like I can't just be like promoting products all the time for free. It was like at that point where I was like, I gotta start proving that this like can make me money, or else becomes that cross rate, doesn't it? Yes, yeah. Or else, like Harry's like, okay, you got figured out. So anyway, I set it up. I made a thing, and like I sold so many of these freaking catchies. I was like, oh my God, this is crazy. And then I couldn't believe how much money you could make with affiliate marketing. And so I started doing that. Like I started just like getting brands to send me things, and and then honestly, that's how I built my like basically my book where I could go to brands and say, I sold this many products for this company.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Like this is what I'm worth. You know what I mean? Well, you have to have data. Yeah. Like people don't understand, like that part of it is that like you gotta do all this stuff for free for at first to build up your like analytics, your data, to be able to like pitch yourself and say, this is what I'm worth because of this. And I have proof and I can prove that I've done this, this, and this. And so yeah, I just that clicked for me. I was like, oh my God, like I I need to start like pushing this stuff more and just building up like my portfolio. And then um I got a manager for the first time. The I the first management team I had, I didn't, it was I had no idea I was doing. I just it didn't really go well. But then I started realizing like, okay, no, this is legit, like a career. And then it was like the growth was crazy. Once you like lock in and you realize this is a job now, yeah, then things started to move quick, like really quick after that. And I was like, okay, so I'm definitely not going back to work in a gym ever. Sorry, you need to tell that career counselor. But it all worked out. I literally want to say it. Like, I say this all the time. I'm like, it the all the people who bashed me over the years and said being a stay-at-home mom was like not ambitious enough. Like the amount of dates I went on when I was single and I would be honest with them, like, well, like, what is your like ambitions for your life? Where do you see yourself in five years? Like, uh, well, I kind of want to just be a stay-at-home mom and like maybe like us have a side hustle, like do fitness or whatever. Oh, that's like unattractive. Like, why? Like, you have no ambition, and now I'm like retired, my husband, bro. So, and like you just missed what you wanted from yourself and you made it happen. And like literally being a mom is my job, like in a sense. Yeah. Like, literally, I just I created a job out of being a stay-at-home mom. That's literally an insane idea.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Amazing. And but you do have to give yourself a lot of credit. Like being a content creator is like I know a lot of people think it's a walk in the park, but you are coming up with your script, you are filming, you're editing, you're directing, you're doing it all.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

So and I'm like still one of these idiots who doesn't have anybody helping me. People are like, who edits your content? I'm like, I do. So you do it all still? Everything. Everything. The only thing I don't and my husband's too. The only thing I don't do is uh like I have a manager. Yeah. Thank God. Yeah. Because I I I'm like, my ADHD could never have me responding to emails. Good God, no. But I have a manager, and other than that, and he all he does is like does he does like the business side of things. Harry's my accountant, like he deals with that. I don't have a clue about the number stuff. But like when it comes to the actual like content engagement, like I don't have anyone on my thing, for example, like engaging with my yeah, with my audience. Like that's a hundred percent me. Like, I don't I've never had anybody edit my content ever. Yeah. I think the editing is like the bread and butter. Like exactly. I don't know how you could.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Yeah. Yeah. Um, if we jump to Harry losing his job, how was that time for you? Obviously, now it's it's great, but how was it? It's all worked out now, hey, but it was not fun.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

It was terrible. It was like really rough time, actually. Um look, it was a very difficult situation because like I couldn't be honest with my audience as well because it was like potentially like you know, you can't always tell people what's going on because like he's having this like fallout with his uh, you know, at his workplace. We're trying to figure out like what's going on, and you can't always tell people what's going on. So it's like I've always had this platform where I'm just like open and honest about everything, and then all of a sudden I had to like kind of be honest, but like I can't like tell the full story of what's happening because we're just trying to figure out like where is this going next. And it was like a really I honestly think that was the first time I was like, yeah, there's like such a dark side to this like social media presence. People were so awful about it. It was probably worse living it online than it was was worse living it in real life. People were so awful, honestly, and blaming me, it was like so insane. I'm like, I have nothing to do. I don't even know the people that he works with. Like, I've never even met 95%. Like, what would it have to do with me? Like, people were, it was just like, you know, it was awful. And trying to come up with all these like scandalous reasons. I'm like, no, dude, he literally just got let go because like the industry's in a downturn and this happens. Yeah, yeah, this literally happens, and like it has there's no scandal here, there's nothing nefarious, like it's just something that happens all the time, like in the corporate world, especially. Like the numbers don't run, like see ya, you're gone.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

It's so hard because like you don't have to choose to share all of this.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

I know, and you feel like you're like trying your best to be honest with people and like give people like the low times in your life too, and then they're just like, uh, like you know, I'm just gonna kick her while she's down.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Well, speaking to that, how do you decide like what to keep private versus what to share?

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Well, I would say it's changed a lot now that my kids are older. I keep their life pretty much private in the sense of like you're not gonna see any more compilations of them fighting and bashing each other. They're older now. I I just think like it was funny. I think it was funny and it didn't feel like too too like okay, this is how we look at it when it comes to sharing on social media with the kids. You know, when you're like parents, you you're at your parents' house and your friend is over, your new boyfriend is over, and they're like, let's pull out the home videos. And then you're like, you know, you have this like cringe, but you kind of want to watch it and you kind of love it, but you're kind of like embarrassed too. There is like a line in the sand between like when your parents pull up a video of you when you're two or three, and you're like, oh my God, I'm so cute. I'm just like this bumbling cute little toddler in a diaper, to when you're like six, seven, eight, and you're like, that is so embarrassing, mom. Like, burn that tape. So I've kind of like pulled back a lot from showing them in their even their funny moments or like their little tanties or whatever. I don't show any of that stuff anymore. So I've started to keep their like personalities honestly very private. Like they're around, they're in the content, but I'm not like really showing off their personalities. Like you probably can't even really tell the difference between them a lot of times, not that they look alike, but I don't really dive into like who they are as people, what they like, what they don't like, like their bad and good moments. Like, I keep a lot of that stuff private now. Um, and then also one thing I have never ever done, and I actually don't even do this in my real life either, is like, don't talk about your marriage. Like, just don't do that. Like, there is like a point where it's like every marriage is gonna have like ups and downs, and like you don't ever, you know, don't brag about your husband in the good times and don't talk shit about him in the bad times. Like, because it's just I just find like that is a sacred thing to protect. And I would never use that as content, I guess. And like, so no matter how much I want to be real with people, I'm never gonna. I I also don't gas him up that much on socials either. I'm not one of these people who's like pretending to have a perfect relationship and like we're in love, like we just met. Like, I'm not one of those people either. So I just I but I find that you should have that value in real life as well.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

And I just kind of have that value, like marriage off limits. Never gonna like speak about anything, you know, in that sense. Not that there's like anything, and even me saying this right now, people are like, oh, she's hiding stuff. They pick at everything. But it's like, I just think like there's nothing to tell really. It's but it's just one of those things, like I just would never, I would keep that private. I also am like I I people, I guess, how do I dunno. I guess the more that people, the more followers or like the bigger your audience gets, you do have a sense to feel more private. Because like in the beginning it felt like it was like my twin mom community that understood me.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

And like everything that I said and did would go over pretty well. But now it's different. It's like I feel like the larger your audience gets, the more people follow you to like hate you. And so sometimes I'm just like I give less because I just it's just it's you're never gonna win anymore. But that makes me sad because it's uh you kind of lose your sparkle a little bit of like why people followed you in the first place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Do you feel like you have quite thick skin when it comes to the trolls? I think I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Do you always? Or do you feel like you I always say like, if you ever see me rant, it's because I'm about to get my period. Like if you ever see me like trolling people in the comments back, because I'll have moments where I'm like, I'm in the mood today. Like I'm gonna be so mean back to you. Um, it's because I'm about to get my period. But three out of four weeks of the month, I am the thickest of skin. And then like I'm I'll have a few days of just like I'm spiraling, I'm turning, like I can't even look at it, you know?

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Yeah, for sure. Well, if we circle back to when Harry did lose his job, like you only need to touch on what you feel comfortable with. But like, was like, were you kind of getting to a stage where you're like had you ever thought thought about him already leaving his job and you becoming the breadwinner, or did this kind of put that into motion?

SPEAKER_00 39:27

I think like that was, and like the term breadwinner is so funny too, because it's like it's like I guess I am, but it's also like we would I would not be my career is only because of him. Okay. Like he a hundred percent funded our my career. And I don't know if you guys feel the same way too, but like in this industry, like you need to spend money to make money. That's all him. Like he funded my career completely. I made zero dollars for years. I literally zero dollars. I didn't even get any help from the government because I wasn't eligible. Like, I didn't even get a dollar from the government of subsidy or maternity leave nothing. So he like 100% was like funding our life. So also like all of our, you know, our home, like all of these things that are like super important assets. He basically set us up to be able to take this dive. Like, this is all him, 100% financially, all his doing. Um, you know, when we bought our home, like I didn't, I didn't like now. I'm saying too much. When we bought our home, I contributed literally nothing. Like it was his home, but it was my home too, but it was his home. So, like, like selling an almost two million dollar property in Sydney, that's given us a really nice plot like you know, platform to like take this leap and go all in on me.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

So I want to make it clear that like while I am now the one who makes more money than him on a monthly basis basis, like we wouldn't have that foundation to take that risk if it wasn't for like his hard work for 20 plus years, like incorporate.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Yeah, and that's what being a team is all about. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

It's like a crazy thing where like we literally are this like incredible team. Yeah. And we both know that. There's no like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 41:17

There's- You never know when it's gonna switch back and it might switch again. I'm hoping it does.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

I'm hoping you're about to have another baby.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Exactly. So, so now it's so it's like I've always wanted him to leave that job, truly. Like maybe I was low-key manifesting it, and that's why we're here. Because I'm a magician. But I was low-key manifesting that he would. I've always wanted him to go into because he was a uh business like a strategy consultant, like a high-level strategy management consultant. I'm probably saying that wrong. It's very above my pay grade. I don't understand it. But he has spent his whole life learning how to make businesses like profitable and business operations like corporate businesses run. So I've always thought like we need to have a business. You have all of this like knowledge and experience. And instead of making some other guy rich, like like you could make us have like, you know, wealth that our children can take over one day in our own company. And so I've, you know, we're at the very beginnings of those like seeds hatchling, but it makes sense, I think, like with my marketing brain and his like operations to kind of come together and like take a risk and do something together business-wise. And so, really, like him leaving corporate and not deciding not to go back after he was let go was our like, let's just take this leap. But at the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, he can always go back. It's just that's our goal is for him not to go back.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

But yeah, I think it never happened. If he never lost his job, would you guys have taken that? But we'd be suffering.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Yeah, we'd still be suffering, like everything happens for a reason. And by suffering, I'm being uh so dramatic. Like our life has always been amazing, but he was suffering, he was suffering. Like trying to balance like a really big career and being a really good present dad, very hard to do.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

And you were doing the was that when you were doing interstate travel as well.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Well, that was the beginning of the end, wasn't it? Wasn't it? That was we were foreshadowing we're done with this shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. True, true, true. Like, seriously, once I talked him into moving to Byron, like it was a foreshadowing of like we're kind of done with this life. Yeah. And and I don't think we understood how done with it we were. Yeah. Um, and I do think like he would have kept working like he loved his job, but he would have kept working if that didn't happen. Um, but I it's always been in the back of his mind like, what if you know, we could we love to travel. My family's in Canada. We love the freedom, the idea of having this freedom to be content creators. Um, And then me get to spend more time with my family is a huge part of that. Like we got to go home this year for like over four months. Like that was a massive opportunity. It has always kind of like, we're like, if we could make the numbers work, like this would be worth it for us. Cause we don't have like a conventional situation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

So we really last year were like, let's just do it for a year. You know, we're past that now, but let's just do it for a year. And if our life completely implodes, you go back. Yeah. You go get another job. Like you're you're as highly skilled individual. It's not like you can't go back. Exactly. And then, or you know, or maybe it works out. And like obviously, here we are, like a year and a half later, and like it worked out. And like the numbers do run. And a lot of that has to do with like just changing our lifestyle a lot. Like, we've completely changed our lifestyle. Like our living expenses are so much lower. Like, we make way less money now, but we feel way richer. It's the wildest experience ever. And I want to like tell everyone, I want to like write a book about this. I'm sure someone already wrote a book about this, but it's absolutely insane. Like, I feel so much richer now, even though his paycheck is like gone completely. It's just the crazy. And I, you know what I mean? Like, I I'm not like doubling up mine with his paycheck or anything at the moment, which people probably think that, but no, it's like we literally just changed our lifestyle. Like we just became more focused on like what to spend money on and not to be like, you know, going crazy and needing like crazy things and living in the crazy big house and all that. Like it's just enjoying life. Literally. Yeah. And now we have freedom, we're present, and we're not living without anything that we need. Like, it's just the wildest like transition.

unknown 45:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

I want to tell everyone that.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

I feel like your Instagram tells everyone that because I'm like, I want to live. I know, but I swear people don't believe it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 45:56

People always think it's like you're just lying. It's like, oh, you're only showing you sliver. It's like, no, seriously, guys, like, if you just stop being so materialistic, yeah. Like, that sounds so stupid. Cause I realize I am materialistic too, but uh, people I don't pay for that stuff. They send that to me. I didn't buy that. So, yes, I'm materialistic, but like not in that sense of like, you know, you're not gonna catch me with like a designer bag. Like, I'm driving my husband's old truck right now. You know what I mean? I could go get a nice car, but I don't care. I don't care. I would rather have Harry home with us, have freedom to travel, to take jobs, like outside the country we want to. Like, I just I don't know. I just, it's priorities, really. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

Your priorities seriously shift when you become a mother, and then like something like where a career change happens can just pivot everything, and you just adapt. And that's what you guys have done. And it's probably gonna be for the better.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

So it's already already is so much better. Yes, I love that. Like, it's just so much better. And just leave the city if you can't handle the rat race because it really is like just leave, just go, just get out of there. Like, you know.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Um, you've also built Pip Squake alongside everything that's been going on.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Yeah, it takes me. Um, I love hate with this whole thing. It's like um, it's been such a learning curve. Uh obviously, I have no business acumen, never ran a business. Uh, but I have this, look, I have this vision of like curating pro like a collection of products that I love that I would use for my kids, like genuinely products that I would use for my kids that I feel comfortable like selling to my audience. I want them to be, you know, like high ethos, like really, really good quality stuff for kids. And so like I have this like vision of where I want to go with it, but it's not so easy, like to just, you know, and I don't have like an investor or anything like that. So we're really funding this all like with our own cash. And we've made like we've put some rules in place that like we're not gonna take loans, business loans, like we're really gonna fund this ourselves. And even if it means it has to grow slow, we just don't want to ever be in a position where like we put ourselves in a bad place and then he has to go back to work, you know. So you know, but we're in this kind of like situation where like we're so excited about Pip Squeez, and there's been such a good response from people, like it's been a crazy amazing thing. And I feel like I've spent years building trust with my audience, and I'm like, this is my time to like kind of cash in almost on that. Not cash in, that sounds like I'm all not cash in like on the money, we're not making any money, trust me. But it's more like like I get to like these, I get to use these chips, you know what I mean? Like I feel like I've spent so much time like building that trust, and now I want to instead of sell everybody else's products, I'd like to sell my own. I just feel like that's the natural progression in what we do. And um I'm really excited about Pip Squeaks, but it has been a huge learning curve. We've had a lot of issues with like our manufacturers, like I've been sold out already for like months, like been struggling so bad to get them to like make my product. Um, it's just been like one issue after the other, and so we're just trying to figure all this out as we go. So it's been really a challenge, but it's very exciting. And I just, I just I believe in it and I know that like the long term of it is going to be worth it, but we just gotta figure some things out. Um, because we have no idea what we're doing. Like we need almost like we need a consultant. Now we need to hire a consultant because it is like a whole freaking world. That the manufacturing world is crazy. It's my background. I know all the people. Oh my god. Well, can you be my consultant? Oh, I feel like it's like the passion and I start. I say like this all the time. I call it the mafia. I'm like, this is like dealing with the mafia, these people. Like, and I'm like, I'm the outsider in this, like I have no idea. You just you just you just get better with it with time. Like, and you have to like just make these terribly expensive mistakes.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

It's it happens to the best of us, I promise. Oh, it's rough.

SPEAKER_00 50:23

And being pregnant while this is happening, literally, I launched Pipsqueaks and then I found I was pregnant like two weeks after. Yeah, and I was like, it was amazing it happened that way because I would have never probably done it. Yeah. But like, I'm like, oh my God. And then I went straight when I should have been, excuse me, when I should have really hit the ground running after the launch, straight into first trimester. And I was like, I don't even want to be on social media. I don't even want anyone to see me.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Gosh. And now you gotta show up for two accounts. Like Pipsco.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

And then we forgot that building something, building something to get that, like you like you want to. And Harry, to be fair, Harry does everything for Pipscque. So I don't all I do is the marketing. Like all I do. And even that, I'm like hardly doing that because well, we don't have any product to sell. Yeah. Because my manufacturers are driving me insane and won't make my freaking product that I've ordered six months ago, literally. Yeah, anyway. It will always be. This is my one thing that I could get like heated about. But no, you'll get no, you're gonna get it. It's a it's a it's a learning curve for sure.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

So, congratulations again. You're now uh pregnant with baby number three. Yes. Um but the journey to getting there wasn't so straightforward for you, I believe. Did you always know you wanted another baby after twins, or is it something that you and Harry like went back and forth with?

SPEAKER_00 51:40

Definitely, uh even as traumatizing as having to be twin boys was. I always wanted to have more kids. Um and especially because I had only had the one pregnancy. It felt like it was over so fast. Yeah. It's like newborn phase was like, boop. Like imagine, and I'm just like, there's just no way that's it. Like, I just, you know, and I always wanted to have lots of kids. I always said I wanted to have four. Right. And yeah, I we we um so we got engaged and then found out we were having a baby very soon after that. Found out it was twins, went straight into that, and then it was just like, okay, I guess we're not having a wedding for a while. We need to just like get through this. So the twins were, but we we wanted to have more kids. We were just waiting till we got our wedding out of the way because we were having this big extravagant wedding overseas, and I obviously didn't want to get pregnant before my wedding, so we held off having uh trying again because we were planning the wedding. So then as soon as the wedding was over, like literally that night probably, it was like, okay, let's go for number three. Yeah. And it just did not work out. Like it just, I it was, I mean, it took two and a half years to get pregnant after that, which it was it just it was like I was in denial for the first year. Yeah, I was in complete denial that this was happening. I'm like, what? How can this be?

SPEAKER_02 53:05

Especially when you did get pregnant quite quickly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

And it just went complete opposite, and it just was like, it just felt like I was like living in someone else's body. I'm like, what? Somebody switched my body out. Like, what is happening? And so, yeah, it was a long journey, it was a life-altering journey for sure, trying to conceive again. But um, yeah, thankfully we're here now. But so, you know, it's obviously a very different talking about it in hindsight, knowing that it worked out. You have so much more, you know, like I don't look at the journey now in such a negative way. But if you would have caught me on the podcast like, you know, a year ago, it would have been a very different conversation.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

I can imagine. I was the the other way, like it that happened to me my like trying for my first. So I can totally relate to those feelings. And you do, once you kind of get to the other side and you're pregnant, you know, it's not like you forget the journey, but like that weight is kind of lifted a little bit. But when you're living it, it is all consuming. I try to imagine.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

I would explain it like if you if somebody could have told me in the middle, in the worst, the middle of that, like on my worst day, if somebody could have said, just it's gonna happen, but it's gonna be like if a medium could have said to me or a psychic could have said to me, it's gonna happen, but it's not gonna happen until um this date, you know, two and a half years from now. I'd have been, okay, I can wait two and a half years. Yeah, but it's the not knowing if it will happen ever that makes it so every day feels like the longest day. You know what I mean? You're living your life in these like two-week increments, like you feel like you're just living your life on your cycle, and like it's just like one disappointment after the other, and you're so frustrated and you're so like it's the unknown of like, is something wrong with me? And if there is, like, is it ever not gonna be wrong? Is this something I can fix? Is this gonna be like this forever? If someone could have said to me, Oh, like you won't get pregnant until the boys are four and a half, I'd be like, Great, I can wait. You know what I mean? It wasn't that it was like it was just not knowing. Yeah, yeah, like and if and feeling like you're broken.

SPEAKER_02 55:07

Was there ever a point in your journey that you were like, This is maybe not gonna happen?

SPEAKER_00 55:12

Oh my god, so many times. Yeah, it was like so many times, like just really angry. I went through like I I say like I went through like the five stages of grief. I don't know if that's even how it's explained, but you have to go through like the five stages, like the beginning is like denial, you know, and then the next stage is like you know, you or like you're in shock, and then it sinks in, and then you get like really obsessed with like OCD about low talks living. You're like going down the rabbit hole and you're just like trying to like get as much information as you can, and then you become like neurotic and like really like um, you know, like fragile, I guess. And then when that stage doesn't work out, you get angry, you get frustrated, really self negative self-talk. Like I just remember thinking my body was just a ju like, I was like, what is like I hated my body for betraying me, which is the worst thing you can do when you're trying to get pregnant is be negative towards your body. And I didn't understand that. And then it got it gets to the point where you realize I'm not gonna biohack my way out of this. Like I need to like get my spiritual like self to my emotional body needs to like be focused on now. And that honestly for me came from giving up and just being like, you know what, like I'm blessed, I'm happy, I've got two kids, which it's a lot easier said that to do that when you already have kids. Like if it was my first, yeah, I would have gone the IVF track a hundred percent. Um, but I just because I had already had two kids, I thought, you know, maybe this is it for me and that's okay. And I like just accept legit accepted that it's gonna like I'm so happy with everything I have and I I'm ready to walk away from it, you know, and then you know, that's when your spirit can kind of realign.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

It's crazy how you stop or thinking about it and then it's like.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

Yes, but worst advice you can give someone who has infertility is saying you need to just stop obsessing. Oh my gosh, yeah. Because it's not real. Even in all the times I took that advice, and I'm like, we're not even trying this month. I don't even care. And then I'm like, you know what I mean? It's like it's not real. You're literally not trying to try. Yeah. So you're just doing another biohack. You're like, okay, this isn't like authentic at all. Yeah. Like I had to literally just completely come to my breaking point of like, this is never happening. And I'm like, okay with that. And it was like a really hard, like last kind of you know, like I was broken, like legit broken. But it was like I needed to come to the breaking point to try to just let it go. And like that, how do you give someone that advice? Well, you need to just become broken and then you'll feel, you know, then you'll let it go. Like, you can't everyone has to go on their journey. Yeah. And like that's that's my my my advice to anyone struggling with infertility is like, first of all, I'm praying for you, and like I genuinely believe that one day it will all make sense, but also you've got to go through the motions. Like, there's no advice here, there's no magic pill. If there was, I would sell that. Yeah, but there isn't.

SPEAKER_02 58:27

So well, we're glad it all worked out for you and that you stuck through it, and you're gonna have another beautiful baby boy. That's so exciting.

SPEAKER_00 58:34

And I am so excited that it's a boy. I think, you know, I of course I always wanted a girl, but I'm so happy it's a boy. Like I I really am. I think it's just it's it's meant to be.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

Yeah. Boy mom. Boy mom. She's a boy mom. So alongside everything else, you've had to find your village, and that's looked like an au pair. That's been fun too. Um, how did you decide on um, you know, going down the au pair path? I know a lot of moms of multiples think about it because we need help.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

Oh, if I could help if I have done anything for the twin mom community out there in the world, it's show them that they can afford an au pair and to get one immediately. Yeah. And like, don't feel bad about it. Like, I I it was so it actually, you're saying, well, your question was like basically like, how did you decide? I didn't really decide. It literally just happened to me. Yeah, I swear. I had an email. I remember like having the boys were two and a half, so we're yours are now.

SPEAKER_03 59:30

I'm from the email.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

That is a special time. It's a very special time. Um, we had just transitioned, like Sinead and I were just saying, just transitioned out of the cots. So sleep went to shit again, and like I was just in a bad place. I was having a low point. And I was struggling. And my boys were two and a half, and I mean, I couldn't even go to the grocery store still with them. Like it was like, because now they're not doing the stroller. Yeah. There's no way. So it's just like legit dangerous for us to even leave the house. Like it was just, it was a, it was a it was a low time in my journey. I was struggling at that point really badly. And um, I literally got an email because you know how you have your, you know, your business email in your social media. And I got an email from someone that was like, hey, I follow you on TikTok. I'm an O pair. Um, I actually just moved to Australia, but like it didn't work out with my host family. And she kind of gave me a blurb about like she had had like a bit of a like a bad situation with her host family where she had moved to. And she's like, I am kind of like in an Airbnb. I don't know what to do. Like, and I my immediate like motherhood like feathers came up. And I was, I was like, oh my God, she's like stranded. There's this girl and like she needs help. And I'm like, I said to Harry, I'm like, we've I'm like, even if we don't hire her, like we should probably tell her she can come stay with us until she finds something else. And Harry's like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, I'm like, I don't know. I just felt this urge to like whatever. So I call, I call, I jump on the phone with her, we start discussing it. And I'm like, well, we'll trial it out. I was like, can we have a trial? Like, how would that feel? Because I didn't have much time to think about it. I was like, you need to get out of there. Like, you know, come immediately, like get on the next flight. So she flew in from Cannes, and I just loved her. But I mean, obviously, we had a bit of a rough start too. Um, but because of all, again, social media making our lives awkward and miserable. But it was, yeah, it was like another moment, like when Harry lost his job and I had to decide how I wanted to approach this on socials. I said to myself, how am I gonna approach this? How am I gonna tell? I have been niching myself as this like do it all twin mom.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:44

Right, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

And like, you can do it. And it was like, you know, and then I was like, What how am I gonna switch to be like, you can't do it, hire health? Like it was just like, that's not gonna go well. Yeah. I really genuinely was like, I don't think this is gonna be good for me. I I feel like I'm gonna lose a lot of viewership and people are gonna be disappointed to see me hire something.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:04

But at the same time, it's your first time being a mother as well. So isn't that crazy? No, you don't know what's ahead of you. You don't know what seven's gonna look like or ten looks like.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

So I really was having these thoughts of like, how am I gonna play this? Like, my audience, I feel like, is gonna be disappointed in me. And like the reason why people follow me is going to change. Like, people are gonna be like, what? Like, I follow you for inspiration on like how you handle this so well. And to come out and say, I'm not handling this well, I need help. So I considered like keeping it DL. And then I was like, no, that is so unethical in every way. You know how many times I've been scrolling on social media and said to myself, you have a friggin' nanny and you're hiding her off screen. I know it because I know, I know what's going on here. Yeah. And I always thought that was so gross. Like when I would see content where I'm like, you're claiming you're like the best, like I hate to say it, but I'm gonna just say it. Nora Smith has a nanny. Come on, dude. She's got a nanny. You know what I mean? And I remember she was blowing up at the time, and I'm like, I know how much work went into even cooking that meal and cutting that content. And she's got three little kids. She has a nanny. Best believe she has a nanny, maybe two or three. Because I know how much work that goes into. That's a full day that you work. You know what I mean? And her husband I was just like, I just don't believe. And I remember it would make me feel bad about myself that she's like, she does her makeup in full glam every day, and like I'm like messed here. Yeah. Yeah. And so I thought, you know, that's not me. Yeah. And like that's her. And I love her content. I follow her by the way. I'm not not trying to drag her. It was just that that's not me. Like, I'm gonna be honest. I'm not gonna make people feel bad that they can't pull this up. Yeah. So I thought, no, just like I always do, I'm like, no, I'm just gonna go all the way. And not only am I gonna tell people about it, I'm gonna work it in. And I'm gonna be honest, and I'm gonna say, I'm freaking struggling and I need help. Yeah. Here's all the reasons why. And I was prepared for there to be backlash. Like, and I thought the backlash was going to be based on people thinking I was a bad mom and I wasn't dedicated, and I was like, you know, wanting I knew there was gonna be commentary about like, oh, you're just like lazy and you want someone else to raise your kids. I knew that there was gonna be a little bit of that. I also knew there was gonna be a little bit of that like classism thing where it's like, oh, if you have a nanny, you're like, you think you're better than other, you know what I mean? You think you're like privileged. That whole conversation about being privileged that people get really touchy about on social media. I knew there was gonna be like commentary about that. Genuinely, I was prepared for like a little bit of backlash. But then the backlash became about her being too hot. And it was like, I had no idea that was gonna happen. That was insane.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:46

So that's other people's insecurities being projected onto you that they're like, they probably, if like this nanny came into their house, they probably feel like they couldn't trust their husbands.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

And I'm like, oh my God, this is so awkward. This poor girl just moved into our house. And now she's like Daily Mail's writing articles about how she's gonna sleep with my husband and like pictures of her face on the article. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. But anyway, would you like to come to dinner? That's it was so well. But she became like she was such a good sport. I love you, Elsa. Um, she was such a good sport, and like she just dealt with it so well. She also had a TikTok account. She was uh sharing her au pair journey over TikTok. So we had this camaraderie about like the trolls and like we just can't let it affect our real life. And so we really did like band together and get through it. But like if it was anyone else other than her, it would not have gone that way. Like that person would have probably ran for the hills and like been like, this is insane. What have I entered into? But um, yeah, but having an opair was a game changer. It got me through a really, really kind of intense parenting period. Yeah. The the the year between she was with us for a year, two and a half to three and a half. Thank God I had her because I don't even know how I would have like I would put it this way like I would have survived, it would have been fine, but I wouldn't have been as good of a mom as I was. I wouldn't have been as patient. I wouldn't have been as fun. I would have been way more stressed out, way more snappy and short. Um I wouldn't have been able to work out as much. I wouldn't have been able to like work on my business as much. Like it really was like having but I was still also able to be with my kids all the time. Yeah. You just have an extra set of people. Literally, like I remember just like me and her being like, we could just do anything today because I have you. Yeah. And I can go to the mall and like I can go, like these stupid things that I think a lot of moms don't realize, like twin moms have such a hard time with, or like moms who have kids really close in age that are young, like something so trivial is like I couldn't even sign my kids up for like programs or like activities because I would take them and it would go terribly, and I wouldn't be able to like manage a lot of times. Like I would leave things crying, yeah. Yeah, the first two years all the time. So I was so embarrassed that I couldn't like handle my kids and they would be disruptive to like whatever the activity was, or like I can't do swimming lessons because I need another person to hold the child. Like, you can't hold two kids in the pool. So, like my kids never did swimming lessons. Like, all of a sudden, it was like, Well, we can do all of this stuff now. Like, she's like here with me. And so, people have this like idea that like if you have a nanny or if you have an OPR hired help, that like you're just like Sia, like they are in the movies. It's like not like that at all. It's really like the opposite. I actually was more present and had like a better relationship with my kids because she was there.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:50

It stopped you from reclusing because like you could go to the beach, you could do the activities now, you could do all these things and give your kids those experiences they wouldn't have got if you didn't go there.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

When she, I'm not even joking you, things that I was terrified of tackling. Uh she moved in and she just gave me the confidence. Within six weeks of her living with us, fully toilet trained, got rid of the dummies completely, cold turkey. Like all these things that I had been dreading the mountain that it felt like it was going to be to climb. She just like gave me the confidence. Like, we're gonna do this together. And like, I just like it literally within six weeks, it was like bang, bang, bang, bang. Like we had like done all these like developmental, like really kind of scary things, like potty training twins is not easy, you know. And so it was like it was just amazing, honestly. It was amazing. And I started sharing a lot about the journey because I loved it and I didn't care about the backlash anymore. I didn't give a shit. And so many, I I think honestly, I put an influx into the au pair economy from how many people hired au pairs after. I imagine like it be because people were like, whoa, like this is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:01

It wasn't it's wasn't something, especially in Australia, like shared quite openly online.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:05

It's like people, it's like a stigma around having help, like having a nanny, having an opair, is like this real stigma around it, which I mean I get it. Like I took a lot of shit, and I to this day, you know what I mean, like we'll still get comments about it. But it's like it's like I don't care. This is making my life so much better, and it's more affordable than people realize, it's more accessible. Regular people can do this. Like, you don't have to be like some like you know, top 1% earner that's like a million, you know, a multimillionaire. Like, that's what you think of when you think of someone having a live-in nanny. But it's like an au pair is like this like middle ground where like as long as you can fund a really good lifestyle for them and you give them a lot of freedom to travel and stuff, because at the end of the day, they're that's what they're here for, as well as they want to experience a culture. So you have to just respect that and know that they're not here just to be your nanny, like they're here because they want to experience like a culture outside of their own, they want to travel, they want to make friends, you know, and you so you have to you have to be willing to like really have that balance and support them doing that. And then also, you know what I mean? So it's not for everyone, but it really is a great opportunity if you are going through like a difficult time, you need some extra hands. If you have an extra room in your house and you can afford to like put food on the table for them, um, make sure that they can get around, you know, make sure that they have a phone, like a, you know, a phone plan that they can use. If you can like set them up with a good life and allow them freedom, it's not a massive financial like investment on top of that compared to a nanny. You know, like I mean, it's an incredible opportunity for especially for twin moms. But the thing is, good luck finding out pairs that will go for twins. Um Debbie's like, yes, yeah, yo, so validating girls, like so validating after she moved in with us. She was like there for a couple of months. She's like, I've been doing this for a long time. She's like, twins is way harder. I'm like, yes. I know. She's like, no, like for real, you're amazing. Like, I don't know how you would be doing this without me.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:17

Do you think that having an au pair has made you late and you now live with Harry's mom? Do you think that has that's a free au pair? Yeah. Moving with your mother-in-law, that is a free au pair. That's even better. Would you have been open to that before you had Elsa? Do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:33

Look, I would have never been open to moving with my mother-in-law unless I had to. I love, but now that I've done it, I'm like, this is amazing. Again, it's like, you're just like almost like forced to learn these lessons in weird ways. Like I would have never moved in with her. I love you again. Love you, my mother-in-law. Love you so much. What I would have never done that. It just would have never come across my mind that this is a good idea. You know what I'm saying? And then we were in a situation where we're like, kind of like, this would really help us to like figure out the next steps. Like, we don't really want to sign another lease. I was, we were, we were actually weighing going to Canada potentially. So we were having this interim, like, we don't know what to do for the next like six months. You know what I mean? We need six months to get my citizenship. And then maybe we'll move to Canada. Like, we were, we were kind of like, we don't want to commit to anything. And so, and we didn't know what was going on financially. We needed to sell our property, we needed to do like so many things financially that were really scary. We had all these question marks, and we're just like, we need to just she she basically was like, Well, just come live with me to figure it out. Love that. And it was amazing living with her. Like, I I would have never in a million years thought that I would choose to long-term live with my mother-in-law or anybody's mother or my own mother, you know what I mean? Yeah. And nothing personal against her. It's just like, you just don't think it's like, why would I do that? That's crazy. You hear all these like terrible stories all the time. Like, mother-in-law's gets such a bad rap. Yeah. And I love it. It's like mind-blowing how it's just meant to be this way. And if we all could just get off our high horse of like what we feel like we need to do to feel accomplished and just live like this.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:14

Is how it's supposed to be. It's how it was. Like you touch on a lot in your content, like the multi-generational living. That's how it was for so long. And that's why we feel like we don't have a village.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:23

It's completely clicked. I'm like, oh, this is actually how you're supposed to raise kids. Yeah. Like she's not like I put my kids. Harry and I put our kids to bed ourselves every night. We wait away. We're they're parenting 24 seconds, but it's like literally like on a Saturday afternoon, we'll do like activities in the morning, and then by the afternoon, they're over at Nana's house baking or hanging out with her. We don't even see them for like four hours. You know what I mean? We don't have to plan it. We'd have to like book it in the calendar. Like, yeah, it's just crazy. Like, if I get caught up here today and I don't have time to go pick them up at school, I've I have someone on the call call list. She'll be like, Yeah, I'll pop over. Like amazing. It's just like this is how it's supposed to be. And to be fair, like, I don't know how I didn't realize this because when I grew up, my grandma and my grandpa always lived with us. They lived with us until I was like 10 years old. My grandma drove into school more than my mom. I'm like, oh my God, how did I not realize this? You know, it really is the way it's meant to be. And so I love also promoting that and like showing my audience that, even though, you know, I get a lot of hate for that too. You can't play with everyone. I never play with everyone except for it. It's just it unlocks levels. Yeah. But you have to also be willing to live with your mother in law.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:34

And that's probably not a possibility for everyone. But like, you know, I think you're showing all these different ways of living that have like never crossed people's minds. I'm almost like, whoa, I've had like a crazy journey. Like, I'm just thinking of all of these stages of my life that I've gone through. But you probably never, like, when you like imagined your life, like, yes, you imagined yourself being a mother, but you probably never envisioned all these different stages. But that's the beauty of life, isn't it? You just don't know what's ahead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:00

Well, before we wrap up, we always like to do a little rapid fire. Are you ready? I'm ready. All right. First word that comes to mind when you hear twins.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:10

Chaos.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:11

Sorry, I'm that's the honest one that came.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:14

Oh, that's so bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:16

One thing you swore you'd never do as a parent, but twins made you do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:20

Oh, lie to them and bribe, bribe all day. All day. I do that so much. I'm like, This is about to be. People who say they don't are just lying to, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:30

The things that come out of my mouth. Um, what's one twin parenting hack that you could not live without?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:37

Um my god, I don't know. The catchy or whatever it would be. No, no. Sorry, we're not gonna give them that plug. Um, honestly, gentle sleep training, I would have died. I honestly think I would have been in the loony bin if I didn't learn how to gently sleep train. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:57

Like gently. It's a totally different type of parenthood when your children sleep versus when they don't.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:02

Oh, I would have been in the loony bin, 100%. Okay. You wouldn't have a mom.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:08

The last question we have is what is the hill you die on when it comes to raising twins?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:15

I just think like people aren't gonna get you, and that's okay. And like just protect yourself, you know, you don't have to take people out. I think what helped me so much in my twin motherhood journey is to just really know that like you are moving mountains every single day, and like people aren't gonna get you, and that's okay. And you just you have to just build that confidence and kind of build up that wall because you're gonna walk through the first two years like an open wound. I feel like I was an open wound for two years, and once I realized like every day I'm a badass and moving mountains, like and built up that confidence in what I was doing, like that helped me so much just to like take everything on. I guess I don't know if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:59

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. You are a badass, we are.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:02

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:03

Um, but no, thank you so much for joining us today. Um, I know I think from the day I found out I was having twins, I followed you. And so I know how much our listeners are gonna get from this conversation because you you've helped so many.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:14

All the twin mamas.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:15

Oh, the twin honestly talk to you for hours. Like, I'm a big thing. Oh, we could, we could. This is the thing. Um, but again, we're so pleased that you are expecting another baby, and we can't wait to follow that journey. But yeah, thanks for watching. Thanks for having me, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:27

And I'm just I love that you're also sharing your guys' twin motherhood journey, and this podcast is gonna help so many people because it really is that like community thing that we're all craving. I feel like that's why we're all here right now. Because we all had that like we were craving to just be with other twin moms, and it really does help you so much to get through that journey and like connect with people.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:49

It's really a special sisterhood, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:52

It is, it's a club. Oh, it's an exclusive club.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:55

I love it. Only a few people get to be part of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:58

But again, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:00

Thank you guys so much for having me. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:03

That's a wrap for today on All At Once. We hope you laughed, maybe cried a little, and most importantly, felt seen while navigating the chaos of raising multiples. We release new episodes every week. Subscribe to keep them coming. And if you want more in between, you can find us on TikTok and Instagram for sharing behind the scenes moments, practical tips, and exclusive guest insight. Or watch the full episode on YouTube. It's messy, loud, and beautiful. Live with multiples all at once.